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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Carolina Fall Fly Finals
Carolina Fall Fly Finals
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Ballrollers
188 posts
Nov 17, 2005
3:12 PM
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Guys and Gals,
I just got back from a great couple of days with great roller men for the Fall Fly Finals and thought I'd give you a heads up. The participants included Joe Bob Stuka, Clay Hoyle, Jay Yandle, Don Simpson, Dom Cirri, Dave Szabatura, Bobby Bradley, Wendell Carter, William Cable, Bud Sprinkle and myself. We were all anxious to see Don Simpson's black white-flight hen that was rolling 60-80 ft. with speed and quality in the regionals, as reported by Joe Bob, Clay and Jay, and later video filmed by Clay and posted on Earl's list. Don elected to pull her, however, along with two other deep birds, fearing they might not continue to shoot back to the kit in the comp. His birds performed great and most felt the score from a tough judge did not accurately reflect the performance of the kit. He kicked out the deep birds afterwards, but to be honest, some were more focused on a couple other speedsters with less depth! The deep hen sometimes rolled within 10 feet of the ground and exited the roll looking upward and always retuned to the kit when a lesser bird would have landed early. I can see why Don was concerned about her in the competition kit.
Clay Hoyle is always a treat, as are his kits. The weather was perfect and he had them set up just right; he kicked them out at 4:00 PM on schedule and they were crankin'. Most commented that it was among the best kits they had ever seen and, again, that the score was conservative to say the least. The birds were breaking 2 times a minute with 2-3 trigger birds that rolled from above and in front of the kit, then BAM the whole kit would go, sometimes leaving a couple that did not roll. So lots of 1/2 and 3/4 turns with awesome quality. Dave, those birds sometimes would all break, drop 30-40 ft., exit the roll in the same direction, and the whole kit would continue in the same direction at the lower altitude! Quite awesome to say the list. The only problem was that the birds did not come down and at dark, 10 birds were still not down!! Sure hope he gets them all back, which he was "sure of" since there was no wind.
There was lots of discussion about rollers, families of rollers, judging and competition, color birds, and NBRC and WC politics. Szabatura and Mel (the judge) kept trying to score some of these mongrels to take home with them, but we told them that they were'nt quite ready for these birds, yet! LOL Dave S. was also afraid Scott Campbell would put out a contract on his life if he did so!!! LOL
It was a great day, good kits, good rollermen, good discussions, good food and good laughs. That's what it is all about, gentlemen. I thought I had died and gone to roller heaven! YITS Cliff
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George Ruiz
78 posts
Nov 17, 2005
3:33 PM
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Cliff Im glad all of you had a great time thats what its all about.
Thats why a lot of people donate thier time to make these fly's happen ,we are blessed that many folks take the time out of thier busy schedules to participate and volunteer thier time for the great hobby of flying rollers.
George
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
576 posts
Nov 18, 2005
1:41 AM
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Cliff. I am sure you had a Grand time.From what I hear and from some of the pics I seen there must never be a dull moment around Clay.My kind of fellow.LOL. David
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Mongrel Lofts
81 posts
Nov 18, 2005
5:27 AM
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Szabatura and Mel (the judge) kept trying to score some of these mongrels to take home with them, but we told them that they were'nt quite ready for these birds, yet!
Yea, Dave has been known to beg for a toy stencil now and then. LOL You always break it down to the Mongrel colors Dave, how many Mongrel colors did Clay Hoyle and Don Simpson fly in these two kits? Dave said the kits were very good and top quality. I would have loved to see them. Dave said Clays kit was one of the best he has seen. So fill us in, what rare colors do these two men fly in their comp kits.. What family's were they flying. Do you know? I have heard rumor.. Mongrel Lofts
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Ballrollers
189 posts
Nov 18, 2005
6:53 AM
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Kenny,
Clay's birds are primarily Danny Horner Jaconettes, though he has blood from Joe Bob, Rick Mee and several others, as well. His Kit birds are all the basic colors. He has dilutes; I did see a yellow grizzle and a reduced bird or two. Color is pretty much irrelevant to Clay as far I can tell, but I know he detests recessive red for its tendency to take over a loft. He has bred a couple kits of Niebles, but has seen nothing but fast flying and tumbling out of them so far. No Neibels were in the competitions kit. Performance is what counts for him, obviously.
Don Simpson is flying his Old Almond cock line down from the original Ed Garret/Lloyd Thompson birds and Bob Welborne/Pensoms. He has been crossing in Bobby Bradley's line from Ellis MacDonald, as well. The deep black white-flight hen of his that Clay video taped is 1/4 Bradley blood. Don says he did not cross in many of the Turner color projects in the 80s and 90s like most did in the Carolinas. That's the straight scoop as I know it, Kenny!
So we have top kits in several families of birds in the Carolinas, including those with color modifiers, and those without color modifers; just as we are seeing all accross the country. For those of us committed to performance, the color, or the family, is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Men are having success with a number of different families. It is the committment and experience of the breeder, trainer, and manager of the birds that, ultimately, tells the tale! YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Nov 18, 2005 7:00 AM
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motherlodelofts
495 posts
Nov 18, 2005
7:49 AM
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Good post Cliff ,
Cliff the good thing about a judge like that is that there is "no" question that Clay had a great fly with a solid qaulity team and I have confidence that a top qaulity kit is going to take top honors over a kit that is nothing more than an active kit and personally I doubt that score will be beat.
And thanks to that type of judge it surely won't be beat by some overactive B.S. kit.
When points are given out freely and you see many silly scores it is impossible to tell what kind of kit actually won and activity is generally the governing factor.
We need judges that work at seperating the wheat from the chaff and from what I saw that is what the judge was working hard at doing.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Nov 18, 2005 8:27 AM
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Ballrollers
190 posts
Nov 18, 2005
8:34 AM
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Thanks Scott, I have some comments, but I'll e-mail you in private. Have you heard any of the scores from Aubrey Thibadeaux, Alex Hamilton or Baldwin yet? YITS Cliff
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Mongrel Lofts
82 posts
Nov 19, 2005
5:55 AM
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Hey Cliff,
Thanks for the information you have on the famillies being flown by Clay and Don S. Hey one thing I'm wondering about, Don's old Almond cock line. I have been told its not really an almond at all but a dark tort and that is just a nick name for the old cock. I was told this cock was a Pensom back ground bird and not an almond at all.. What do you know about this? Always nice to be standing under a rocking kit, two of them in one day sure makes the coffee taste better.. LOL Mongrel Lofts
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Dave Szab
15 posts
Nov 19, 2005
3:47 PM
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Hey Kenny,
Isn't a Toy Stencil something you use in 2nd grade art class? LOL. Whatever IT is I certainly wasn't looking for one! Most if not all of the birds in the kits looked like regular colors to me. I did hear Don talking about torts alot, so maybe they weren't true almonds. The bird I liked best at Don's looked like a bl ck self with bronzing, but Don said it was a kite marked bird. That bird had some serious speed and also rolled from the front of the kit, she wasn't as deep as the others, but I would have picked her over all of them. I really didn't ask about mongrel colors when I was there, I just enjoyed the fine kits that I saw in the air.
Dave
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Ballrollers
191 posts
Nov 21, 2005
12:01 PM
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Several guys had their eye on that kite bronze bird, Dave. She was fast, that's for sure, and not much bigger than a robin!
You're right, Kenny. The coffee tasted real good on that day! LOL To answer your question, the Old Almond Cock was, indeed, not a gentetic Almond at all, but a dark tortoise, as you mentioned. The bird was actually bred by Lloyd Bagwell of Wilmington, NC, from the first Pensom birds brought into the Carolinas by Bob Welborn of Greenville, SC. Don Simpson obtained the bird through Frankie Reece who got him from Bagwell. Both Bagwell and Welborn kept the family straight with no outcrosses. Simpson describes him as the fastest spinner he has ever seen. A 1972 mating produced two cocks, nestmates 5011 and 5012. 5012, a red grizzle, went to Tony Roberts and became the father of the Shooting Star Hen, one of the foundation birds of Carl Hardesty's family. 5011 would go on to continue the foundation seed of the Old Almond Cock performance in Don Simpson's family. Old Almond Cock blood was crossed into nearly every family of birds in the Carolinas for years to come, including Tony Roberts and James Turner. Ed Garret brought in Lloyd Thompson blood, also, in the 70s, and that family was crossed into the rollers of most men who were serious about performance, including Simpson's. Though he dabbled in the color modifiers when James brought them in, he was not a genetics buff and they soon faded away in his loft as he focused on performance alone. An article that I wrote called, The Carolina Connection" in the Sept.-Oct. issue of the NBRC journal goes into a little more detail if you are interested! I am pleased to have obtained two pair of Don's birds closest to the Old Almond Cock to preserve the line. I have done the same with Joe Bob's line (predominantly the Turner, Horner, Baker, Mee crosses), Jay Yandle's line (mostly Turner and Henry Cook crosses), Clay Hoyle's line (primarily Danny Horner Jaconettes), and Don Green's and James Turner's line. I hope to have separate lofts and kits of each family to fly in the future. YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Nov 21, 2005 12:37 PM
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Arrowslinger
5 posts
Aug 30, 2006
3:51 AM
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Good to see Frank Reece get some press, without him some of the greatest lofts in the carolinas would be mediocure at best.
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Ballrollers
441 posts
Aug 30, 2006
5:23 PM
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Arrow,
Frankie was, at one time, indeed, a mover and a shaker, in the Carolina roller scene. I would love to have a pair of his blue lace rollers. I've heard stories told of their incredible speed and quality, to say nothing of their beauty. You sure hate to loose a good roller man like that to the bottle....What do you know of him?
YITS,
Cliff
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Arrowslinger
6 posts
Aug 31, 2006
6:55 AM
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Cliff,
I lived five houses down from Frank, purely by accident I even found out he had rollers. I kept modenas and fantails at the time, one of my fantails got out and landed in Franks backyard. After that day I cleaned out my loft and replaced them with two cocks and two hens grandchildren of 5011 :)
For the next six years Frank and I bred and flew birds (most of the time against each other) that dude could remember birds, it was amazing. Through Frank I got to be friends with Don Simpson and John Castro. Funny my step mother worked for Don during my teen years and I never knew he was a roller breeder?
Man could I tell some tales! One involved a breeder who had 5011 on loan, Frank went to get 5011 back and the guy was so upset he threw out the eggs! Not to mention the guy already had 10 cocks and 8 hens from the mating.
True, Franks personal battles got the better of him, but sober you could not ask to talk to a person with more knowlege of the spinning roller.
Last Edited by Arrowslinger on Aug 31, 2006 6:57 AM
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Ballrollers
442 posts
Aug 31, 2006
9:31 AM
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Arrow,
I'd love to hear some of those stories, sometime. Where are you living now? Are you still in the roller breed? What ever happened to Frankie's birds? I never heard anyone around here say. Don's a good roller man. I always enjoy spending time with him and seeing his kits. As you probably know, he will be the Finals judge for the National Championship this fall. You got another name you go by? LOL!
YITS,
Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Aug 31, 2006 9:36 AM
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Arrowslinger
7 posts
Aug 31, 2006
7:00 PM
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Yeah Cliff its Mike Richey
Frank still has a few birds or the last I spoke to him last year? I cant have birds here in Chicago (townhouse) but I do see a few local breeders and have seen a fly or two in Wisconsin.
Shoot me an email sometimes arrowslinger@comcast.net
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