nicksiders
154 posts
Jun 27, 2005
11:21 PM
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When is old too old for breeders (birds)?
When is old too old for flyers (birds)?
Don't want to know the exeptions just what occurs in your experience as the norm or average.
You guys probably thought I was refering to my age at first probably................LOL
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jun 27, 2005 11:24 PM
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Richard A.
38 posts
Jun 28, 2005
7:00 AM
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Personally, I breed a real good producer as long as I can. Some seem to lose some of the quality that they once produced as they get older, but usually still pretty good. My breeders can start going out any time after 10 to 12 years or so. Some last longer, but that is why it is so important to breed proven replacements, so that when they do go out, your breeding program can continue with the same quality.
I very seldom keep my flyers in the air more than 2 years. my goal is to take a step forward every year in either quality or speed, so I always look forward to my new matings and seeing the new young teams, and what they will eventually show me.
Richard
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Mount Airy Lofts
12 posts
Jun 29, 2005
10:21 PM
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I don't believe there is a age limit on a good/Champion breeder. The only time one can let go of such a bird is when he or she has a whole loft full of that blood already and would like to pass the wealth on to other lofts. In my books, there is no age limit to breeding out of a bird. It is more about how good of a producer/fertile the breeder is then how old it is. I know of several cocks birds in the same family I have still producing at the age of 18 years old. On the hens side, I only know of a few that are still producing fertile eggs at the age of 12 years old. The oldest hen I have ever seen that is still producing good eggs is a 14 year old. Once these birds go barren or infertile, they live their lives out as fliers.
There is no age limit to kit birds. Like I mentioned above, most old breeders that go dud is reflown. If it has the quality, frequency, and kits... I don't see why it isn't flown if not breeding. You can see acouple of guys here reflying their old breeders.
Thor
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DHenderson
10 posts
Jul 02, 2005
6:10 PM
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Nick,
sounds like you got some good advice on this one.
I have found that there are a lot of things that will get in the way of the longevity of a good breeders, mostly staying healthy however I think genetics is also part of it.
I know in the line I have that the mother of my foundations birds was still laying and doing the baby thing at 15 years old but that was her last season. She only yeilded 4 young in that 15th year.
I have heard of cocks going beyond that but not many. With our rollers they can get arthritis and that could effect a cocks ability to swing his tail around and fertilize the hen. There is really not much you can do once the cock is too "stiff" to get it around? I have heard of fanciers "milking" them and artificially inceminating the hens, but I don't know the details on this as I have never seen it done.
I have a hen in her 12th season now still kicking them out regularly. Early in the season and most of last season she was only giving me 1 good egg but last season I pulled her out early in the season and medicated her. It must have worked but the problem I see is that she is not so eager to raise the babies, but seems to love going down on eggs. Mostly I notice with her that one baby will get fed better and I am forced to pull one and only allow them to raise a single baby each year, it's easier on her. She has been looking real good as of late and this year she is on her 6th set of babies, unfortunately I haven't been able to foster as many of hers as she has been out of sync with the rest of the birds. I did loose 2 when we had a cold spell also and a couple to that falcon I had early in the season, weird how 2 of them were eaten?
I would say that majority of her young seem to be a little on the weak side on average. I wrote a letter to Dr Marx and asked him about his opinion on the material that is in these old hens eggs, how viable it is on average but have not heard back from him yet.
What sparked interest in this was a show that told of wemon in their prime freezing their eggs so that when they were older they would still have young eggs that yeild more healthy babies on average. I hope to get some feedback from Dr Marx about is ideas on this one?
I would think that it would be similar with old birds as they eggs are as old as the hen is. Cockbirds will keep producing juice however like other animals.
I have also heard that over medicating can affect the longevity of breeders, but I think that health has a lot to this also but as we know over medicating isn't the best on them, it couldn't be.
I would say that on average most cockbirds are about 8-9 years old when they start to show problems and hens about 6-8 years old, I think much of this reduced amount of breeding years is due to them getting sick and dying.
Dave
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big al
32 posts
Jul 02, 2005
8:49 PM
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When you go out to the breeder loft and the bird is stiff and keeled over thats a good sign. (Thats terrible LOL)
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Velo99
33 posts
Jul 03, 2005
5:58 AM
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I would like to pump a few rounds off of my favorite pair before I shut down for the season. I have a few wooden eggs to get the timing right. What is the proper way to use pumpers? I have an idea but not really sure.
thanks
YITS
v99
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Mount Airy Lofts
13 posts
Jul 03, 2005
9:58 AM
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Dave H.,
I too have a 12 year old hen working for me in the breeding loft. I feel this may be her last year because she is very slow in her cycle. It wouldn't be long before she goes barren. I have another problem besides she not being a good feeder like yours. My old hen just drops eggs every where she goes.... and never in the nest bowl. I had to pick acouple of eggs of the gound already from her last year. I know it's hers because prior to laying she was eggy and plus her eggs are ad-normally small in size.
I find it strange how a egg could just drop without her knowing it. Maybe she lost her sense to feel behind there. Like old folks who need to where diapers.
Milking birds is a first for me! Never heard of it before.
Thor
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DHenderson
11 posts
Jul 03, 2005
5:55 PM
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my old hen has nice eggs, I give her calcium gluccanate a few times per season and that really helps on the quality of eggs, she tends to neglect 2 and I always seem to have to foster one of their y oung.
I wonder if her milk is still as good as it once was? hard to tell but they do seem to grow slower then other pairs in their prime.
My old 13 year old cock is really kicking ass this year, raised 2 each time and shows absolutely no signs of being tired like a 13 year old bird. He did have a 3 dude eggs in the early rounds but he seems to be rejuvenated.
Well in terms of pumping birds eggs to other pairs you simply need some dummy eggs and some extra pairs and you can make it happen.
The idea is to put a foster pair down the same day as your good pair so they'll lay close enough togethet to foster the good pairs eggs to them. I like to let my good pairs all raise at least 1 set on their own before I foster at all.
You use the dummy eggs on the foster pairs so they don't hatch any while you are getting ready to foster, if they lay out of sync with the good pairs just simply put some dummy eggs under then until the good pair appears to be mating again, normally when their babies are about 10 old pull the dummy eggs and this works most of the time for me.
well keep the ideas coming
dave
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