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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
What is your definition of a Waterfall ?
What is your definition of a Waterfall ?
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hawkbait
1 post
Jul 07, 2005
2:54 PM
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I've seen the term used many times but have never read anyone's definition. It seems to be a fault. Is it?
How does it compare with a full turn?
Spencer
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
56 posts
Jul 07, 2005
4:04 PM
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It's not a fault in an individual bird, but it is what you could consider lack-luster team performance. In the overall appearance of a team, waterfall breaking could be seen as a fault in general. But it usually has a reason such as age and chemistry. Breaks optimumly should be crisp and clean, evident dedication by multiple members of the kit to "snap" into the roll at the same time...instantaneous performance. Waterfall breaking is usually when a team is not in tune with one another and the participating members don't react at the same moment, thus creating what some of us call a "popcorn" effect. Waterfall breaks will look different from loft to loft, but they all share one thing in common, that being the lack of a team connection on some or all of the breaks viewed as a being waterfall breaks. This would be what folks refer to as kit chemistry. There is something unbelieveably dynamic about seeing a large group of rollers instantaneously snap into performance. Some describe it as looking like they all hit a glass window at the same time. When a team isn't on the same page during flight, waterfall breaks are more common which tend to give the impression of birds rolling at different times. It gives that impression because they actually are rolling at different times. It looks lazy and out of sync. Picture it like a dump truck dumping rollers out of the back, they come out rolling at different times. We want to see BANG breaks, all birds involved hit it at the same moment. Waterfall breaks tend to be bang, bang, bang type of breaks, which really isn't a break at all but rather individual rollers rolling at different times than others, even though that might be within the span of two seconds of time. It is one of those things that if you question the difference, it is best to have someone show you while a kit is flying and performing, that way you can visually see what the person is trying to describe and get a feel for when a break is clean and crisp, and when it is just a bunch of popcorn waterfalling.
A full turn is all birds in the kit (most consider this to be a 20 bird kit) rolling together at the same moment.
I hope this answered your question.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jul 07, 2005 4:07 PM
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viper
3 posts
Jul 07, 2005
8:25 PM
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When I first started I had 4 differnet familys and also had lots of water fall it seemed like one family would go then another.In comp flys I would get 0 or very small scores.I was told that it was the differnet familys together so I picked The best family I thought and bred a hole bunch and flew them together.The scores got better and the water fall is way down.Just a thought.Blake
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
58 posts
Jul 07, 2005
8:56 PM
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Blake, it is true that their are genetic traits and (triggers) that can be built into different families. If the triggers are not wired similarly, the result can be haphazard breaking. I don't get a lot of waterfall breaks and I fly multiple families. Sure I get them in the young developing teams, but once they are older, there is no problem with it. Once they fly together for a while, the develop the chemistry. Old bird teams are notorious for this.
One of the most common causes of waterfall breaks is birds rolling from the back of the kit. If we watch our kits, often we will see one or several birds that are always rolling from the back of the kit, then just afterwards, some from the middle and front say "oh damn, those guys in the back are rolling, we better roll too." The birds in the front don't get a good "head's up" trigger from the ones in the back, and thus, the breaks ends up like a waterfall effect. The best, most powerful, crisp and clean breaks always come from a trigger bird in the front. If you can isolate a front trigger bird, you will have a kit that breaks nice and clean, and probably pretty big too.
Brian.
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viper
4 posts
Jul 07, 2005
9:04 PM
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Thinking of the way this kit flys tou are watching them also lol.This is a young kit this years I lost my wc kit 1 week before the prelims to hawks.So I'm starting over agin.Thinging about it the kit I lost was as you descibed.
Just jumping the gun agin!Thanks Blake
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big al
33 posts
Jul 08, 2005
3:04 PM
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Brian nice post!!
I agree that the majority of the problem will result from birds breaking from the back of the kit. The trigger birds start the break from the front of the kit making it easier for the rear birds to follow suit. When birds break from the back of the the kit, the front birds have too long a delay before they realize that a break is happening. Age and roll depth will also play a part. If the birds are rolling at different depths with breaks starting from the back of the kit, the birds don't have good separation and this sometimes gives them the appearance of being short as well as waterfalling. ----------
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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