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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
why not & how come?
why not & how come?
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joelbanc
2 posts
Jul 10, 2005
7:07 AM
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Over the years, there is one particular book that most people want and ask for. Its the "True Spinning Rollers II by Mr. Kowaiski. I also have it, but never noticed
any of his fine birds being in demand, nor his name being listed as a top flyer. This is just a burning question
of mine and not in no way trying to disclaim him or anyone.
There are books with a wealth of knowlege, nice front covers, but what have the Authors actualy done and where are they today?
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Shaun
23 posts
Jul 10, 2005
7:53 AM
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I have the same book (a signed copy, indeed), but I much prefer Graham Dexter's "Winners with Spinners". The former does have good advice, but there's an awful lot of what some refer to as "pseudo-science" about the breeding process, so it's a somewhat laborious read. It doesn't help that the author constantly gives out quotes from the likes of Pensom, but then includes many of his own quotes as if they're some sort of gospel.
Graham's book is chocker full of advice on all aspects of rollers, but he spends as much time interviewing the top UK flyers of the time (this was 1989, then the book was updated in 1995), as he does relating his own experiences. That makes it a very well-rounded book, as opinions are very diverse.
Today, Graham is one of the UK's competition judges for the national flies and he's president of our national roller club. I also bend his ear a lot for advice and he's very generous with it.
Shaun
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
317 posts
Jul 10, 2005
8:16 AM
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Hey Joel, in my opinion, writing a book IS an accomplishment! The time and effort involved is just as time consuming as breeding and training a kit of rollers as well as requiring an ability that most of us do not have.
Sometimes, when someone puts down his thoughts, opinions and research conclusions to paper, seems that individual, especially if he is not a recognized brand name roller breeder, is minimized and put down by those who “know more”.
Questions get asked about who he is, what local and national flys has he won, what birds he flys, etc…While these are legitimate questions to ask, in my opinion, they are asked more in the spirit of “who does he think he is for writing such and such”…
I say be thankful that someone has taken the time to do the work, perform the research, ask the questions, document the facts, form opinions and conclusions and lay them out for the rest of us to see what he sees.
Joel, ask yourself some questions: Did you learn something new? Where new thoughts and concepts learned? Did you find the book interesting? Did you enjoy it? Or did you already know everything he wrote about?
There is an old saying “don’t kill the messenger”. LOL Who do you have to be to write something on rollers or any topic? If you know something and want to pass it on, write a book, write an article, post a new topic, respond to a topic.
I daresay that few who post on this site or others, or write articles for the NBRC bulletin are champion roller breeders but we all learn from and enjoy their posts and articles on a daily basis. The accumulated years of experience of those that post here on this site alone I bet is in the hundreds of years!
Just ask yourself, did you enjoy what you read? Did it make you mad? Did it change your perspective? Did something you learn save you time and effort? I know you are just asking an honest question that has been burning at you, but I personally have a lot of respect for people who put their butts and reputations on the line.
I will always try to be the "eternal student" looking to learn more and never feeling like I know it all as those who think they know it all have really just shown the rest of us just how stupid they really are. LOL
Thought for the day: “Don’t kill the messenger”
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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joelbanc
3 posts
Jul 10, 2005
8:25 AM
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Thanks Shaun for some input and understanding where
I was coming from. I did't want to project any negative
feelings among longtime fellow messagers. This website has been my daily favorite and enjoy all the information everybody posts.
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joelbanc
4 posts
Jul 10, 2005
8:47 AM
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Hi Tony, I enjoy every book I read. Even your "How to Breed Better Rollers" and "Spinmax Rollers Catalog".
I had a few qustions and there was no issue of enjoyment.
All I wanted to know is: Who knows where is he today and
if anybody has his birds? I was not questioning their
ability. I was careful to select only one author and not to
step on anybody toes that I may be couresponding with.
So you hopefuly see now that I tried wording my message not to be misjudged or misinterpreted. It didn't take long to
get a responce and a reaction.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
318 posts
Jul 10, 2005
9:41 AM
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Hey Joel, I hope I did not come across as if I was jumping on you or referring to you. Sorry if my previous post reads that way. You ask a good question and I wanted to respond with my opinion, that’s all. I did not mean to suggest that you were attempting to minimize his efforts.
Thanks for asking a good question!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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joelbanc
5 posts
Jul 10, 2005
9:59 AM
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Thanks Tony, I was about to ask for a refund on the
"How to Breed Better Rollers" Book and the "Spinmax Rollers" catalog.LOL But the truth is:I enjoyed them and
perhaps they will be collector's items after you become
more well known!LOL
Besides, you need to know to take it easy in the future with me because I have heart problems and high blood pressure.LOL Joel
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Alohazona
30 posts
Jul 10, 2005
10:37 AM
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Joel,I believe Davids address and phone # are in the NBRC directory,why dont you try contacting him?I've also seen his name around in the racing homer circuits.I've had positive experiences contacting authors,and just like their publications you usually walk away more informed than you were the day before.Like I said try contacting him its always best to be informed straight from the source,than in a roundabout way,it doesn't make sense that authors put out their thoughts and experiences and hope to never be contacted by someone they don't know ,who wants to be, genuinely more informed,of course ,there could be some exceptions to this.ALOHA,Todd
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Shaun
27 posts
Jul 10, 2005
1:18 PM
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When I started with rollers, just a few short months ago, I had also toyed with the idea of racers (homers) and tumblers. This is because I'd had a mixed bag of them all over 30 years ago, so I was keeping an open mind.
I hit upon rollers by chance, as a guy (the only guy) was advertising them, here in England. I bought a number of birds and it transpired they were a mixed bag, in terms of quality - hey, I've at least got some fosters! Anyhow, trying to get information on rollers seemed impossible. I trawled the Internet and, yes, found the USA forums which I'm contributing to now - but nothing at all from England. So, I went straight to the top of our national roller club - to the President, no less - and I pestered him (Graham Dexter) for weeks. If only, he'd told me he'd written a book, it would have saved so much of his time.
Well, eventually, he did tell me about "Winners with Spinners", so I obtained that (despite being out of print), along with Pensom's 1950s book and "True spinning rollers II". I read the whole lot and would agree with Tony - forget about these guys as flyers, as this misses the point - the research they had to have done was the thing; to consolidate masses of information into something readable, was no mean achievement. So, hats off to all the book writers, wherever they may be.
Accepting that one author's writing style might appeal more to some than to others, this shouldn't alter the fact that each book contains a wealth of information, which everyone can learn something from.
Amen.
Shaun
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motherlodelofts
169 posts
Jul 10, 2005
5:06 PM
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Actually I like reading them all and there is something to pick up out of all most of them, you just can't take everything you read as gospal.
Most books on rollers evolve around writings from several fanciers.
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Mount Airy Lofts
20 posts
Jul 11, 2005
5:28 PM
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I know the fruits of Kolwaski's birds first hand. These birds that Kolwaski got from Stan Plona is as good of a stock as any can be. On another note, I can not say what has happened to blood after a few generations of David Kolwaski ideals. The only birds I have in the back ground of my birds that were bred by Kolwaski were only F1's (which means first generations). Every thing else were of the Original Stan Plona birds Kolwaski recieved/purchase from Stan. Some of these Original's were photoed in Kolwaski's first book.
From reading Kolwaski's first book, he believed in very short keels and tight feathers. This meant that he would breed from these type of Rollers only. His current birds should all be of this type. If one chooses this route, it would change the whole makeup of these Plona birds.
Kolwaski's articles and book always gave me a impression that he believed truly in the technical area of breeding Rollers - which is in the genetics area. This could be because he was a very educated gentleman who taught at a Universty.
In regards to the second book Kolwaski wrote, I can not say anything about it because I never read it. The first book kind of bored me out. (grin) What I can say is that some of the birds photoed in the second book was bred by Gail Peterson. These Gail Peterson birds along with the Original Stan Plona birds photoed in Kolwaski's first book are what created my current family.
To answer you question, who and what ever came from these birds. Well, let's start with Gail Peterson... he was a President to the NBRC. He also dominated the local roller club flys. He still would of but due to some bad luck and theives, he no longer has the birds he had in those days. Anyone who saw those birds in the air can attest to you that they were as good of Birmingham Rollers as any could have.
On the Local and National level, Jim Fisher from Iowa did quite well with these birds. He did so well that alot of people from all over the place almost cleaned him out with purchases.
On the Local, National and World Level, Brian Brueggemeier from Minnesota has done quite well with these birds. He is always the guy to beat in all the Flys (World Cup, NBRC, and Local). He placed 7th in the World in 1994 - World Cup Fly. I believe he has almost enough points to recieve the Master Fly Award from NBRC.
I have heard David Kolwaski still currently has the same family of birds. He's some where in Wisconsin. I don't know why Kolwaski doesn't want to compete with his birds. Maybe he has his reasons. All I know is that if his birds are as good as the cousin's that branch out from the same Original stock, then they should be pretty competitve. I only remember once of hearing Kolwaski ever flying in a local club fly. The word was the birds didn't perform at a competitive level at all. Altho this happened in the '80s.
Thor
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Mount Airy Lofts
21 posts
Jul 11, 2005
7:19 PM
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Shaun,
Is this site the current site for the club: http://www.nbra.co.uk/
About 'Winners with Spinners', I to enjoyed the book. A very well put book.
Thor
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Shaun
31 posts
Jul 11, 2005
11:34 PM
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Yes, Thor, that is the site. If you look, you'll see the AERC 40th Anniversary Special Edition Journal, still available at £5 (about $9) plus delivery. Having just read it, (it's A4 size (US Letterish) and a quarter inch thick) even if I were in the US or somewhere else equally far away, I would still grab one of these whilst they're available.
For anyone who's interested in the English roots of rollers, right up to the present day, this is a great insight. There's also good write ups about competition flying and judging - one guy is flown from South Africa to judge one national, then last year it's Graham Dexter doing the rounds. Unfortunately, despite the many photos of the well-knowns in the book, they've haven't reproduced well.
Worth every penny, or in your case, dime!
Going, going, gone...
I'm not on a commission.
Shaun
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
360 posts
Jul 12, 2005
3:32 AM
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Shaun. I just emailed Donna.Hopefully I can get one.Thanks for sharing the info.Thanks to You and Thor I found another Website to play around in. LOL. David
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Shaun
32 posts
Jul 12, 2005
7:14 AM
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David, us Brits seem miles behind you lot, in terms of web forums. I do wish some of our big players would get in the act and impart some of their hard earned experience. Meanwhile, if the journal you've ordered (Donna sent mine very quickly) makes it across the pond, I'd welcome your thoughts when you've read it.
Until I read that journal, I'd only seen the newer pictures of Graham Dexter and George Mason, which you'll see on the at website. However, upon reading the journal, I learned that they've been pals for donkey's years - so there's pics of them going back to the 1970s - and, of course, all the other Brit flyers around at that time too.
Over here, there has clearly been a great deal of comradry between roller flyers over the years. I've entered the game too late, so I'm happy just to be an observer as much as anything, but I do enjoy reading about the exploits of these guys over the years.
Don't you chaps have anything similar to give us an insight into the wider US roller picture?
Shaun
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