rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
325 posts
Jul 16, 2005
10:32 PM
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What does anyone know about "grizzle" being a dominant pattern that spells doom for performance and that once it is in a family, it can't be bred out.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Slobberknocker
34 posts
Jul 17, 2005
6:17 AM
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Tony,
Grizzle is a Dominant factor, but I have not heard how it affects the roll. I had this conversation the other day with a friend and we agreed that, if the majority of your birds are Grizzle (example), then logic would suggest you would have a higher number of problem Grizzle birds. Some of my Grizzles are my better birds right now.
As far as it not being able to be bred out of a family, that is not true. You can breed any color/factor in or out of a family. If Grizzle is something you don't want in your birds just get rid of all grizzles in the loft. No bird can carry Grizzle. It either is Grizzle or is not Grizzle. If it os not present in your loft, it will not miraculously show up one day.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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Velo99
43 posts
Jul 17, 2005
11:03 AM
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I have a bunch of grizzles. Some of my best birds are grizzles. I will find out this fall how good they are. Definitely by next spring in the Cup.
They come in early, kinda go thru a freq`y phase while they are coming in. Most of mine go to at least twenty,two are thirtys and I had three rolldowns last year. I am breeding deep hard colors into them to slow the roll a bit. So far so good. I have three blue spread hens of the family I am forming going 30. I think when the cocks come in they will be at least that. I like them pretty well. I am pulling the parents back to the kit to check hardiness in the second season. If it pans out I will line breed these into my own family.
I started with 12 birds of questionable parentage. I have aquired four Higgins,all cocks:(,and one Turner. They are squeaks I have to fly out. Otherwise I have these no name birds who are not too bad. I believe it is called starting from scratch.
yits
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 17, 2005 11:03 AM
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fhtfire
169 posts
Jul 17, 2005
3:01 PM
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I have a couple of Grizzles that are in my kit box right now. One is coming into the roll just fine....the other is still a little young. Before I lost my kit last year..I had a little grizzle out of the same hen as the above mentioned birds and was pretty good. The hen that I have in the stock loft is a 97 Utah grizzle from Emami. I have a check that is out of her that is in my A team and is a real good bird. I also have a blue Grizzle Splash from Chuck Roe that was very good in the air. I know that he has some Grizzles in his loft that are pretty good. I will keep people posted on how my grizzles in the kit box turn out.
rock and ROLL
Paul FUllerton
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spinnerpigeon
31 posts
Jul 17, 2005
6:44 PM
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Tony,
I have to say that my best looking bird this year is a little grizzle. I think that they will roll or perform as good as any other color. Just my 2 cents.
Caleb
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motherlodelofts
176 posts
Jul 17, 2005
8:22 PM
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Of coarse they will roll just as well as anything , the question is will they hold it together or fall apart years down the road as a family.
I think that it depends on the family and what is chosen for stock by the breeder.
On the other end of the spectrum is the self blue's in which many such families are stiffs.
95 0/0 or better of my family are self blue's , are they stiffs ? no , but they could go that way without proper selection.
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Richard A.
55 posts
Jul 18, 2005
7:10 PM
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Tony, I think the problem starts when a person begins to double dose the grizzles. As far as I know, whenever you mate to a grizzle, all youngsters are grizzles.
Richard
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big al
50 posts
Jul 19, 2005
2:40 AM
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Hi Tony,
It's been some years now but I've had grizzles before that were nice stable 40' spinners. No problems at all. I never experienced breeding with them. However to answer your question I think it's all in the family. That's basically what determines it all.
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Ballrollers
43 posts
Jul 19, 2005
8:33 AM
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Richard A, Not true....I have a blue bar grizzle mated to a blue check self and they have produced grizzles like the cock, blue checks like the hen, and the last two were blue bar white flights! YITS, Cliff
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highroller
35 posts
Jul 19, 2005
9:11 AM
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Richard,
If everything you get from mating a nongrizzle to your grizzle are grizzled you are using a bird that is homozygous (two doses)for grizzle. These birds are typically nearly white. A normal (heterozygous/ one dose) grizzle will on average give you 50% grizzles and 50% nongrizzles when mated to a non grizzle.
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Shaun
47 posts
Jul 19, 2005
10:06 AM
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I've very recently bred three youngsters from a very pronounced grizzle cock, his body being a very deep red with white flights. From those three, he's produced an almost white bird and two predominantly red birds. However, not one of these three offspring have any grizzle.
His hen is also a grizzle, but less pronounced, as she's a nearly white bird. So, two grizzles have produced no grizzles at all!
Shaun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
80 posts
Jul 19, 2005
12:44 PM
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Shaun, then it is possible you are misunderstanding the parents color expression. I would bet they are piebald in combination with one dose of grizzle. This tends to create a similar "lots of white" effect and then can result in producing some young with no grizzle.
BMC
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Shaun
49 posts
Jul 19, 2005
1:36 PM
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Brian, I've just been looking at all the genetics stuff from the website of Frank (Bluebar) and it's mindboggling - but very informative. At the moment, I just like to be able to correctly identify my birds - especially when many of them look so alike.
I'm struggling just to keep track of the variations of chequers which I have - they're shades of your average blue chequer, with subtle differences in the white markings. They vary from what I would describe as mid blue, progressively getting darker until almost black. They invariably have white flights and tail and a white head of sorts. However, picture half a dozen of them - bald head, but a bit of black in there (so, a bald/badge), white tail with the odd black feather (so, a mixed tail), then all the different body colours ranging from a mid-blue chequer through to almost black.
So, I can see that grizzles open up a while new jar of worms...
Shaun
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Velo99
46 posts
Jul 19, 2005
4:34 PM
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Evidently I have one of each in the breeder loft. I have a homo griz hen, almost white bred to a red bar cock. Three sets of griz chicks with red grizzle on white like the mom.
The hetero is a griz cock,almost white with red and blue griz,on a blue spread hen. They have thrown three sets of one each, griz and blue spread. The griz is more pronounced on the chicks who have dark barred tails and flight tips all along the wings in a classic stork pattern.
Is there a sex link in the single factor griz pair?
yits
v99
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highroller
36 posts
Jul 19, 2005
7:15 PM
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No, there is no sex-link with the grizzle. I've gotten grizzles in both sexes from a red grizzle cock carrying blue mated to a red check hen. The only ones I could sex were the blues which came in both grizzle and non grizzle and were all hens.
Dan
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