showlow
10 posts
Jul 18, 2005
6:20 AM
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Guy's---I have lost several babies, they have full crops, mostly large seeds,peas i think. I don't know what is going on in my loft. I have individual breeding cages that I open the doors when they lay the 2nd egg. Some babies make it OK. I have hens that only lay 1 egg and set on it. Whats up with that? I am back in the sport after 15 year lay off, but I don't recall this problem. I feed 19% pigeon mix, 1 1/2 tsp per gal bleach in water. I have always done this in the past. The daytime temp is near 100, cools off at night. Any ideas or suggestions will be appreciated.
Bob
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
327 posts
Jul 18, 2005
10:48 AM
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Hey Bob, the heat may be having an effect on the babies. Earlier this summer while I was still in California, I had babies die in the nest; it was during an especially hot period.
I did not realize it at the time but a neighbor had just trimmed some large trees that provided shade to my loft, now the west side of the loft was getting the full sun from noon till dusk.
It did not occur to me this was the problem until I literally watched a baby dip its head down and not come up that I picked it up and felt that it was very hot.
I quickly put it in some room temperature water to cool it, within several minutes it was okay.
I realized then that the loft was heating up on that side and that is the side the babies were having the problem. I quickly laid some sheets of plywood over the west side of the loft to block direct exposure to the sun; I then drilled several large holes to let out any heat build up.
This seemed to solve the problem as it did not happen again.
I might also suggest you stop using bleach and begin using Apple Cider Vinegar in the water to change the Ph level in the bird. Seems to be a good inexpensive health tonic that will help your birds stay healthier.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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big al
49 posts
Jul 19, 2005
2:23 AM
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Hi Bob,
I hope this helps...
Remember what ever you feed the breeders, they feed the babies. I think bleach may be a little hard on inactive birds especially breeders. So maybe a little much for babies too? (Just my opinion) Apple Cider Vinegar a couple times a week works for me.
Also, the birds do need protein but 19% grain I'm not sure about. I use pellets about 14%. The birds droppings are more rank but the babies all have feathers that look air brushed and the nutrients the parents and babies need are in the pellets including salt. The pellets also digest in the system of the parents much faster than grain sometimes making food more readily available for the babies. Also remember that the pellets will digest much faster in the babies than grain which can be nothing but an asset to accomodate their rapid growth.
As for your eggs...
Stress, and some viruses retard the reproductive system in hens temporarily. I've heard it said that 10 days on amoxicilin for the hen will get her back in good health along with rest.
Sometimes when feeding only grain to breeding hens there is a slight calcium deficiency in the diet and grit with a little extra oyster shell is good. More times than not this alone helps with the problem.
Sometimes a location change helps.
Anyway just my opinions and observations.
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Jul 19, 2005 2:31 AM
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showlow
11 posts
Jul 19, 2005
5:00 AM
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Thanks for the input Tony and Al-------It just kills me to lose those babies. I quit the bleach and am trying a little vunager. I am having a problem with finding the good natural vinager though. I am going to ask at the Health Food store. I am not seeing any sign of ailment in these birds. 1 little guy was eating on his own and just went lite and died. I will try Pellets on the Breeders, I always thought the higher the protein, the better.
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motherlodelofts
178 posts
Jul 19, 2005
6:36 AM
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Tony made a good point about the heat , you have to have good air flow and it is critical when it gets hot.
They won't just go light though due to heat.
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jul 19, 2005 6:37 AM
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big al
56 posts
Jul 20, 2005
2:20 PM
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Hi Bob,
Regarding pellets and protein...
You mentioned that you've heard "The more protein the better" So you are using 19% grain for breeders?
I've heard of breeders using a lot of protein for their breeders and youngsters (19% and more)
I look at it this way... Back in the 80's and 90's when I used to train German Shepherds I would always tell my clients that active dogs needed more protein but inactive dogs needed less. Protein has to work through the system and inactivity retards the process somewhat. This works the same in people and can cause various problems when not corrected.
Again I use 12% pellets of good quality and I mix a little grit with some extra oyster shell right into it. Since the pellets are made smaller now they're even better.
In my opinion one of the more important things the breeders and babies need is calcium at this stage. However I do begin to add grain to the pellets once the babies begin to eat on their own in the nest to get them accustomed to various grain sizes.
Oh yeah one more thing... If you go to pellets remember the water consumption of your birds will increase quite a bit especially in this heat so keep those bottles full!
Just my views. Hope it helps!! :-)
See you in the roll!!
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Jul 20, 2005 2:28 PM
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motherlodelofts
180 posts
Jul 20, 2005
5:08 PM
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Good post Al, I'll share my experiance with pellets.
I use a 16 0/0 lay pellet put out by "nutrina", and you certainly don't need more protein than that, plus stay away from the medicated pellets !!!! , the dropping look like grain fed almost with the Nutrina and arent messy at all.
On pellets and water, another thing that I keep a close eye on is that the parents are also pumping enough water with them, I keep a watchful eye on the youngsters to make sure that they don't have a hard crop and here and there I need to shoot some water down them.
Also youngsters tend to eat befoe they discover the water and if they gobble pellets before you move them to grain in the weaning box it is critical to make sure they know where the water is, as the pellets just suck the moisture out of them. bottom line is if you are feeding pellets keep an eye on the youngsters !!!
When useing lay pellets stay clear of the greener looking pellets as these are Alfalfa based where the browner pellets are more grain based, the greener pellets will give more of the the messy stinky droppings more.
This doesn't apply to the green "Purina" pigeon pellets , I use lay pellets and not pigeon pellets.
I also want to see some powder in my pellets as this indicates not a hard binding agent which means that they are softer which the birds like.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jul 20, 2005 7:08 PM
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big al
58 posts
Jul 21, 2005
5:55 PM
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Scott,
Very nice post as well!! In your post I discovered a few things I was unaware of regarding lay versus pigeon pellets. I usually use lay pellets anyway but that information is excellent thanks!
See you in the roll!! ----------
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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