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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Pair from 2004 & 2005 W/C champs at auction
Pair from 2004 & 2005 W/C champs at auction
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Shaun
65 posts
Aug 01, 2005
10:54 AM
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Answers greatly appreciated to my A and B questions:
A) I see in the World Cup Bulletin Auction, that both last year's winner and this year's, have both donated a pair of youngsters. I can't go for the American birds, but I can go for Pete Handy's from England. Is this worth pursuing, do you think? I'm high bidder at present, though this, of course, could change. But, I'm wondering what I would do with a single pair of youngsters. They might not even be cock and hen...
B) Scott and you other guys who kindly advised me to give my left testicle to the breeding pair from Dave Moseley... well, I valued my left nut at $250 and I'm outbid at $280. Frankly, I haven't a clue how far to go. I'm prepared to put my nuts where my mouth is (metaphorically speaking), but I just don't have a highest figure in mind. What the hell is a good breeding pair worth?
Cheers.
Shaun
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Alohazona
32 posts
Aug 01, 2005
12:13 PM
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Aloha Shaun,You should e-mail both Pete and Dave,and dis cuss the auction birds,they will either be passionate about these birds or will share the background history,either way you will get a read on what they are offering.In years past there were at least some pictures of some of the birds offered ,so you could at least study the type or character,eye,etc.,but not this year.
Last year[2004]Dennis Burke stayed at my home for 2 days winding up the World Cup tour here in Hawaii.I asked Dennis of Pete Handys 2004 winning kit,"Dennis said,the kit was supposed to fly at 7am in the morning,but because of severe rainstorms they waited it out, for a break in the weather,as the day went on,it was apparent there would no break in the rain,with the evening comming on quick and still raining extremly hard, the kit was released.Of course barely phased by the heavy rain,rolling from one solid mass to another solid mass,directly below where they once were,time and time again,throughout the duration of the fly,all they while in heavy rain conditions."Thats a tough kit.I do not know of Dave M., maybe Scott or others can help you.
Shaun, as far as how much to bid,its always how how much you have ,or how much you can keep disclosed from your significant other[LOL],how much you want the birds,after all they are from 1st class stock.Hope this helps.ALOHA,Todd
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Shaun
67 posts
Aug 01, 2005
12:24 PM
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Todd, I have neither of their email addresses, so can't make contact with either of them (actually, Scott has been in touch with Dave, who has donated the breeding pair - and I understand they're 'shit hot', as we say in England). But, if you had a single pair of youngsters from international winners - and, given their age, you probably wouldn't know whether they're cock & cock, hen & hen or cock & hen - how would you use them, in the overall scheme of things?
I feel that I should grab them, but once I do, I'm not sure where they fit in.
Shaun
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rollerpigeon1963
38 posts
Aug 01, 2005
12:43 PM
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Shaun,
Go to the NBRC website and click the link area events, than click England and you will see Dave's email address. Or you can click members directory and go over to the 3rd column and go down to where it shows englands members and then click Dave's name and a email should pop up already addressed to dave.
Hope this help!
Thanks your friend Brian Middaugh
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birdman
35 posts
Aug 01, 2005
1:42 PM
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Shaun,
I would try my best to contact both of them and explain that you are new to rollers, have many questions, and want to visit as many top notch lofts as possible. Be up front and let them know that you are interested in top breeding stock. If they don't have anything availlable I would ask if I could plan on a visit to watch the birds fly and study the loft setup and study the training methods. Even if you have to travel a couple hundred miles, I think it would be worth it to make some new friends. Rollermen are some of the most generous, outgoing people you will ever meet, and most are willing to help in some way.
Good Luck!
Russ
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Shaun
69 posts
Aug 01, 2005
2:09 PM
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Brian, thanks for pointing me in the right direction; I'm onto it right now.
Russ, you would have to read my earlier posts to see where I'm coming from. I had already invested heavily in another well known English breeder/flyer's birds, when these others appeared in the auction. After I asked on this forum, it was generally acknowledged that the established breeding pair were well worth going for - but it's the pair of youngsters I'm not so sure about. From what Todd has said, the guy and his birds are quality - it's just what I would do with a single pair.
Shaun
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Alohazona
36 posts
Aug 02, 2005
1:04 AM
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Aloha Shaun,provided you win the auction on Pete Handys young birds,just ask if it is possible to receive a cock and a hen,winning the auction is you foot in the door,let him know a pair would benefit you most since you are just starting out.In the pigeon world the term bred for stock is a common one,even though they are youngsters,do not fly them,keep them with intention of breeding when they fit into your program,I'm sure he will oblige,if you ask.ALOHA,Todd
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Shaun
70 posts
Aug 02, 2005
9:02 AM
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Todd, I took your advice and have been in touch with Pete Handy - he's flexible as to what I can get from him. I could obtain a young pair to lock down (cock and hen). Alternatively, I could take two unflown squeakers and fly them, to see if either are any good. I actually prefer the latter option, as I'm not sure I'd want to breed from a pair which I've never seen fly and which could be crap. At least if I got to see them fly first, breeding from them is always an option at some point in the future.
Pete himself told me: "You could be lucky with a pair of young birds, but they will be an unknown quantity until they show if they are good or not."
Pete also acknowledged: "If Dave's birds are genuine stock quality (the pair in the auction from Dave Mosely), they will be worth a hundred times more than a pair of young birds."
Food for thought...
Shaun
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motherlodelofts
224 posts
Aug 02, 2005
10:12 AM
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Exactly Shaun, there is a world of difference between a proven stock pair and a pair of youngsters. Depending on the lofts in question of coarse.
Your left nut doesn't to be of much value to you LOL
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Shaun
71 posts
Aug 02, 2005
10:45 AM
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Scott, I'm with you all the way on this auction, and you know it. There's plenty of time left. In fact, it was you mentioning bringing in other strains, which made me look closer at the auction. Obviously, I can only go for the English birds, thus the two decent options of the young pair from the 2004 W/C winner and Dave's breeders. I like the idea of both, but for different reasons. The youngsters? I really could do with a few more to fly this year, so some of Pete's are a not too expensive option to expand the kit; in fact, I've got nothing to lose. If they give me a bit of entertainment and experience, but they're not great, so what. However, if by chance I strike lucky and one or even both are great flyers, well that gives me future breeding options.
Dave's breeding pair, though - different money, different kettle of fish. Truth is I just don't know what they're worth and that's an unusual situation I find myself in. I could tell you the value of a 1957 Fender Telecaster or a 1963 Gibson SG (guitars), a) because I have both and b) because the market is clearly defined. But, rollers?
Take a look at both auctions on the go at the moment and see the vast differences in bids for birds from the various lofts. It's all too easy for someone to say bid what you think they're worth or what they could be worth to you. But, that's just too difficult for me as a mere novice.
Scott, I've emailed Dave to try and elicit a bit more information about that pair in the auction as, so far, I haven't really got much to go on - no pictures, no age and worst of all, I don't even know what colour they are!
Shaun
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rollerpigeon1963
39 posts
Aug 02, 2005
2:56 PM
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Shaun,
You asking the wrong guys on what to pay for birds LOL LOL especially Scott and myself LOL LOL
Brian Middaugh
Last Edited by rollerpigeon1963 on Aug 02, 2005 2:57 PM
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motherlodelofts
225 posts
Aug 02, 2005
3:41 PM
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Yea Shaun talk to me and Brian about how much is too much LOL LOL
Shaun "if" it pans out it is an investmnt that will be priceless, "key" producing birds are what will make a loft.
Keep in mind also that what ever it costs the wife will use it against you , and throw things like " you spent xxxxxx on stupid pigeons , how dare you say I can't spend money on xxxxx you "beep" "beep" , but it wears off of em after a number of years so don't worry.
So what ever the actual cost is,times it by three due to the "wife" excuse to spend factor.
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Velo99
59 posts
Aug 02, 2005
7:36 PM
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I had to pass on two nice pairs of breeders from a good source earlier this year due to an earlier "pigeon trip" in which I aquired 6 birds for a mere $90.00. My pigeon allotment was up for a while.
She bought a new ring the other day and I didn`t know it till she showed it to me;along with the payment book for 12 easy payments. I believe my pigeon allotment is fully stocked once again.
One other observation, why is it that we get lawnmowers and tools for Dad`s Day and it is cool . But if we get the little woman a new vacuum or a dishwasher for Mothers Day, we are simply neanderthals who think a womans place is in the house barefoot and preggers?
yits
v99
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highroller
43 posts
Aug 02, 2005
7:54 PM
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V99,
in regards to your last observation on gifts....I'd much rather buzz around on the riding mower and tinker with the tools or have a stash to spend on the pigeons than to have a ring to show the boys, wouldn't you? I know where you're coming from though LOL.
Dan
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