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Flying twice a day' and feeding?
Flying twice a day' and feeding?
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tapp
6 posts
Aug 08, 2005
9:33 PM
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Was wondering the feeding schedule some of you flyers use when flying a kit twice a day? I think I read here somewhere bluesman said he flew his twice a day. This mornning I flew mine after flying and feeding at 7;30 pm last night. And flew them at 9;00am and they didn't want to trap and flew from the barn twice and stayed up 2hrs. they were rolling good most of the time. there 2005 birds. I would like to have them come in in the mornning quicker.like they do in evening when feeding after flight time. so when it's hawk time they will be a little better off! Any advice will be greatly appreciated.Iv'e been feeding 1 Table spoon of milow for each bird and was doing fine flying once a day. Thanks. Tapp
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fhtfire
175 posts
Aug 08, 2005
9:45 PM
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I fly my young birds twice a day. For 20 (YOUNG) birds I feed about 1.5 cups of High protein feed In the morning after they fly. Then in the evening when I fly I will put in about a half a cup of 50/50 wheat and milo. I find that they will not trap as well in the evening....but you have the sunset and roosting on your side. I only feed the small amount of wheat/milo to get them to trap. By the morning they trap pretty good....but if the birds come in the morning and trap super fast...like they are real hungry...I will bump it up to 1.75 cups that day....I adjust on how fast they trap....at one point I even fed...2 cups in the morning and my milo wheat mix at night and they still trapped ok, Just realize that they are not going to trap real fast in the evening... It works for me. Hope it helps.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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big al
77 posts
Aug 08, 2005
10:06 PM
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Hi Tapp,
I have a particular way I do my family of youngsters.
If I'm going to fly twice on a particular day, they only fly once the next day.
On the two flight day I fly early in the morning around 7:00am. Once the 20 birds trap they get a little more than a quarter of the normal grain mix ration.
I fly again about 4:00pm - 4:30pm and when they trap they get a little less than the other 3/4's of the ration for the day. I keep it a little less because flying them so late in the afternoon they can still be a little full the next morning when you kick them out again and not trap right away.
Pay close attention to what feed your family of birds responds to the most and let their activity dictate what you feed them on these two flight days.
For me 12% mix works fine. Once in a while I'll use wheat after the morning trap and mix in the evening.
Hope this helps
See you in the roll. (----------
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
405 posts
Aug 09, 2005
3:11 AM
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Tapp.When I fly my young twice and sometimes 3 times a day I only give them a small amout of wheat.Just enough to get them to trap.I feed the full ration after the last fly.Seldom do I fly after 3:00 PM.I like 12 or more hours after the full feed before flying the next morning.I noticed you said that your birds flew for an hour(I think)
When I am flying 2 or 3 times a day I have them that they are only flying 15 or 20 minutes each fly.What I have found in my birds is that(when they are 3 to 4 month)if I allow them to fly for a long time that they will start getting bad habits.What I want them to learn is for them to get up and do their thing real quick and get trapped back in.If my birds don,t trap in 2 minutes they get cut in feed.After they get thru this stage then I only fly once a day and feed accordingly.It is something that you just have to work with and try different things to see what will work for you the way you want it to.After 5 or 6 month old I try to keep them to every other day.Just my way for now.David
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Shaun
72 posts
Aug 09, 2005
11:51 AM
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Being new to this game some months ago (yes, David, I'm sure it seems like a lot longer...), I had to experiment between that continual balance between flying time, actual rolling during that time and, finally, trapping. To get them in, I've adopted ye olde English style of an open loft door, as opposed to the smaller traps that most US guys use.
I fly twice a day, religiously. Once early morning, again mid/late afternoon. After their first feed, they get just enough to keep them going for their second daily fly. After that one, they get their full feed. But, as David says, you don't want them with a crop full the next morning. There is some sort of consensus that at least 12 hours should be left between a good feed and the next fly. But for me, even that time doesn't seem enough. I feel the birds' crops the next morning. If there's still corn in there, there's a calculated risk I have to take. Yes, I want to see them fly, but it's probably going to be too long, with not enough activity and lazy trapping. So, ideally, I like to feel an empty crop at 7.00 a.m.
When they do fly, I'm always there when they land, which can mean I have to delay a few things if they want to fly on and on before coming down. However, once they've landed on the loft top, my patience ends very quickly; if they're not in the loft within a couple of minutes, the door is shut and those which won't come in, stay there. I'll walk back up the garden a little later, open the door and in the odd bird comes. They soon learn that if they don't trap quickly, they miss a feed. So, the same bird tends not to repeat the process (though, that doesn't stop another one, another day...)
So, in my brief apprenticeship, it's very evident that if you feed a bit too much (or a bit too rich), they'll fly a long time and the rolling activity is often stifled. Conversely, if you feed too little, they might give a bit more activity, but they want to come down all too quickly and they don't get enough height, so when you're trying to watch their performance, they keep disappearing behind trees and houses. So, both the too much food and the too little food, are a pain.
Which brings us all back to the eternal 'what to feed them and how much' discussion.
If I fly them early morning, when they come in, I give them just a bit to sustain them through the rest of the day. I then fly them in the afternoon and give them the remainder of their food after that second fly - but not so much that they've still got food in their crop the next morning.
And so it repeats itself...
Shaun
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tapp
7 posts
Aug 09, 2005
11:58 AM
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Thanks all of you roller men for the info.I'll try a little of every thing. I guess it just takes time learning your own family. Ive read alot of post from you guys and learned a lot of good things on this site. thanks agin each and everyone of you. Thanks Tony for a great site! I'll be getting some bands from here to help keep this site alive and well! Your friend in the sport. Tapp
Last Edited by tapp on Aug 09, 2005 12:04 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
407 posts
Aug 09, 2005
1:49 PM
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Shaun.You said; I feel the birds' crops the next morning. If there's still corn in there, there's a calculated risk I have to take.
When you said Corn do you mean the big corn grains that we call corn in the US or do you mean something else.David
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J_Star
18 posts
Aug 10, 2005
5:00 AM
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List,
Let me ask you another question - Why do you fly your young birds twice a day? Is it for them to become good at rolling? The reason I am asking you because that is what I have been hearing and reading and told by many fanciers. I do not see any difference in flying the birds once a day or multi times a day. In fact, I delay a bit the start of flying youngster a bit so that they mature enough and develop some control with no effect on their roll negatively. As a matter of fact, they become better controled and behaving birds. Your comments and discussion would be appreciated. Thanks.
Jay
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
409 posts
Aug 10, 2005
10:14 AM
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Jay.I feel that the more air time they get the better they will become as a team.The more they fly the better they kit.Now if your kits are flying for an hour or 2 each day then that should be plenty.I like to fly some of mine twice a day and 30 minutes at a time.I try many different things when I am training birds.Share with us how your method has shown you what you feel is better.Like at what age do you put them in the kitbox,when do you release them from a training cage(if you use one)and at what age do they come into a good kit.I am always openminded to new ways.
I know if my young want to sit on the roof and play around they are going back up after a rest if I have to fly them 10 times a day.LOL. David
P.S In my area you have to get as much flytime as you can before the Hawks take over.
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Shaun
74 posts
Aug 10, 2005
11:27 AM
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From what I've gathered - and my experiences so far concur with this - youngsters need more flying time; they're learning all sorts and they should want to fly. Twice a day seems a good balance, if you're able to do it. It doesn't necessarily make them better at anything and many people don't have the luxury of being able to release them twice a day, due to work or other commitments. But, for me, there's another reason - I simply want to see them fly more than once a day, and I see no reason why not to.
But, maybe we're looking it at from the angle. It's well documented that with older birds, they can get too strong if flown too often and can perform less frequently - with the strength thing, it's not unheard of for them to be so strong as to disappear up, up and away, never to return.
So, whilst those people handling older birds have to be a bit more cautious (all other things being equal), it would seem that raw and eager young birds give us the luxury of letting them out regularly.
David, when I said corn, it's a generic term for pigeon feed - well at least over here. But, if I feel anything in their crops at all in the morning (and like you, I experiment with what's in their feed), I know It's going to be a longer fly.
Actually, the thing I hate from a long fly is when you think they've had enough time out, but then they come down low and circle endlessly, until one of the birds makes a determined effort to land. They might still be rolling, but I make myself dizzy turning around and around as they circle overhead, as I don't want to miss anything. Bastards.
Shaun
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J_Star
22 posts
Aug 10, 2005
12:46 PM
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Well Dave, you know that any bird that is breed after June is no good. The reason for that is it will not have enough time to mature b4 the hawk season approach. But if the youngster that you breed is before June, then flying them once a day for a half hour to 45 min, I found is sufficent. They will develop the roll as their genatic make up will allow them. I found that when flawn twice a day continiously, they become strong on the wing and will race around. Kitting is natural for them, therefore, sooner or latter they will kit like glue. If you have the extra time to fly them twice a day and you are not having problems with unwated habits, then it is very good. But in my case I found that some habits develop that I will eliminate if only flown once a day.
When flawn multiple times a day, they usually want to lounge around on the electrical wires or the rooftops and prouning themselves, no matter how hungry they are.
When I don't want the squeekers to start flying early, I usually tape their wings for a short period of time. Say a week or so. I don't have a training cage because I never used it, but with their wings taped, I let them out to check out the top of the kit box. They usually do fine and behave better.
Jay
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Velo99
60 posts
Aug 10, 2005
1:45 PM
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I guess I am guilty of the same crimes as Shaun in liking to watch my birds fly.
I fly twice a day a couple of days a week. I also lock down a couple of days a week. I feel this will keep them off balance as to when they will get to fly next. They are usually ready to go the wing when I open up after a day off.
I feed a half ration in the AM then a slightly larger portion in the PM. When I know I am going to fly twice a day for two days in a row I will cut them back on the PM feed so they are empty in the morning.
I use these off days to handle my birds and do small maintenance duties. I have a B team I fly on the off days but they are not as exciting as the A team. I have a mixture of ages and birds in the b kit. I need to get off of my lazy ... and build another kitbox.
yits
v99
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big al
78 posts
Aug 11, 2005
1:27 AM
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Hi J Star,
Some fly youngsters twice a day while others only once. From my experience both work just fine if the trainer knows what he or she is doing. As a general rule young birds newly weened and just getting on the wing require more feed than older birds. They usually have a slightly faster metabolism as well so many people figure that these two factors will justify flying babies twice a day to get them strong on the wing. This system is fine. Remember the faster they become strong on the wing the better their chances of escaping Air Shark attacks if you bred later in the season. V99 made a good point regarding resting them and not flying twice a day everyday!
Also remember that flying your family of youngsters twice a day does not neccessarily mean they will out do the guy that only flys once a day. It just means that the extra feed and their metabolism can accomodate the extra activity. How you feed and make the extra activity work for you is what counts. You have to decide what you want the extra activity to produce. Then it's important to know your own family and recognize if flying twice actually makes a difference with your particular birds.
I've had success doing both. With my particular family, flying babies twice a day 2 or 3 times a week shows birds learning flight patterns, kitting faster and better, and eventually coming into the roll as a stronger bird. Another key is knowing when to stop flying twice a day. There's a certain stage of development when it's no longer neccessary but maybe just fun for you.
Again the key to all of this is developing a feeding program that will prevent undesireable activity from your birds when feeding twice a day. Most of us guys that have done it over the years have no problem with it because we know what our particular families require to keep them on the straight and narrow.
Hope this helps!!
See you in the roll...
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Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Aug 11, 2005 1:41 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
413 posts
Aug 11, 2005
3:42 AM
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Jay. You said;Well Dave, you know that any bird that is breed after June is no good.
No that is something I never bought into.Actually all my project breeding is done after July.Some of my best rollers have been when some think that only the early matings produce the best rollers.
It all depends on Who,What,When,and Where that can determine if ones bred after June make it or not.
If you lock down for extended periods of time then Yes I will agree with you.I only have to lock down for maybe a week at a time.Just thru the main Hawk Migration times.There is always Hawks here so my rollers have to learn quick.David
P.S.Big Al.Very good summation.
Last Edited by Bluesman on Aug 11, 2005 3:47 AM
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fhtfire
177 posts
Aug 11, 2005
7:33 AM
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Best birds before June....BULL Sh*t! I have a Scott Campbell hen and a Chuck Roe Mort Emami Cock that was born after June last year....and I will put those two birds up against anybodys bird....(to bad I did not have a kit full of these two)...anyway...I am not saying my birds are the best....I am just saying that after June is a bunch of crap.
Good point Big Al on when to stop flying twice a day. I usually stop flying twice a day when they start doing 5' rolls or they reach about 4 months of age...it is hard to explain...it is when the birds start acting like the want to hit a 20' roll..you know flying slower...setting up...reacting...that is when I promote those birds to once a day. Then when they start really coming into the roll it is once every other day.....and when they are smoking and pretty mature and have a handle on the roll...they are mixed with some old birds and the feed is now tweaked a little and I fly them every third day. Then when it is a month from a comp...I will fly them a little harder and then lock them down for two days before the comp and pray they come out like they usually do! LOL!
I myself really fly twice a day for three reasons....I usually have the time, I like to watch the birds fly and I really feel that they get stronger and kit and trap better if they are getting double the practice.....just my two cents.\
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
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Shaun
80 posts
Aug 11, 2005
9:43 AM
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It does seem, once again, that much about flying rollers in the US - or parts of the US - is directly related to the presence, or not, of hawks. For those of us in other countries, or even just different parts of the US who (for now), like me haven't even seen a threatening bird of prey, our way of doing things is always going to be different.
The month of the year a roller is bred can surely only be relevant (apart from the hawk problem) when it comes to possible moulting problems when competition flying is approaching, or the late bred bird is only a young bird for a short time, before having to be classed as a yearling - again, probably a competition flying issue. These matters aside, I wouldn't have thought the month a bird is born is of relevance at all. Please correct me if there are things I haven't thought of, which might make me think twice about breeding at pretty much any time (weather permitting).
As for flying more than once a day, I'm still in two minds. As I mentioned, I do this religiously for no better reason than the fact that I'm at home all day and I can release them whenever I like. The whole point in my keeping rollers is ultimately to see them fly. So, I fly them often.
However, I can't deny that their performance varies from one day to the next and unless I let them up less frequently, I can't prove whether this is just the normal performance variation which anyone could expect, or whether it's directly related to how often they're been flown.
Tell you what, though: this weekend, I'm going to my house in France for a fortnight (and I'm not taking the birds over there with me, as I first comtemplated - I finally found a guy to look after them). So, when I get back, they should be itching to get up and perform. Or, they'll be fat and lazy and stay on their perches...
Shaun
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