Fr.mike
20 posts
Sep 29, 2005
5:24 PM
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I looked on this site under glossary for some info and nothing!--I was looking esp-for some color discriptions-for a new guy - the terms--badge,ressive red etc.etc.etc--mean nothing-How or were can a new guy figure out this seemingly unending confusing color discriptions?This is just one topic --it would be an immense help if you good folks would put some stuff under glossery.When your just starting and dumb as a stick its a bit intimidating when reading a post and you start going on about this and that color and us neophytes cant make heads or tails of it all-- in other words It would be GREAT if you great guys could give a few minuites to the glossary section Please -pretty please!
Thanks in advance Fr. mike
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highroller
53 posts
Sep 29, 2005
6:48 PM
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Hey Fr. Mike, there is a nearly endless supply of pictures of many different colors on the following site -- (Edited By Moderator). Hopefully some definitions of terms will turn up in the glossary soon too. Otherwise just post your question and someone will respond.
Dan
Last Edited by on Feb 15, 2007 2:48 PM
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Fr.mike
21 posts
Sep 29, 2005
6:55 PM
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Thanks Dan--I guess i will learn little by little Lol!
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Fr.mike
22 posts
Sep 29, 2005
7:35 PM
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Ok Dan--I looked at Sloberknockers site- so what is
1.A spread?
2A reduced red?
3.A badge?
4.Check beard?
5.A saddle?----You see my problem--The terms dont convey a clear conceptual picture--Badge saddle? were would that be? I realise I am displaying my total ignorance for the whole world to see but I want to learn even at the expence of being totally stupid to all the good folks that post on this greate site.
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Double D
26 posts
Sep 29, 2005
7:54 PM
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Fr.mike, believe me, you are not alone. Just some of us newbies haven't gotten that far yet but I've struggled with the same thing in doing my research.
Darin
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highroller
54 posts
Sep 29, 2005
8:20 PM
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Fr. Mike,
Spread is a modifier (not a color) that changes the appearance of colors. Spread on a blue bird makes it look black. Spread on an ash red bird has several shades it can take varying from brownish to reddish gray to what looks similar to red grizzle. Reduced is another modifier which lightens the color, thus the name REDUCED. It is similar to dilute which makes a red bird yellow and a blue bird silver and a black bird dun. Reduced also adds some interesting variations in appearance that dilute does not. A badge marked bird has irregular white spots or marks about the head area. A bearded bird has white below the beak only, thus the name BEARD. So a bearded check is just a bird of the checkered pattern that has a beard. Saddle refers to a patch of color at the base of the neck on the back of an otherwise white bird so the bird looks like it has a saddle. Hope this helps somewhat. Keep asking questions and picking our brains. We all started out the same way.
Dan
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
165 posts
Sep 29, 2005
8:24 PM
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"Spread" is a gene, which modifies the color of a bird to make it solid, ie..a blue bar with spread turns black. Birds with spread can come in a variety of expressions depending upon their base color and what modifiers are involved. Spread with ash red is a bit more unstable in it's expression, depending largely on what modifiers the bird possess. Other solid colors that are not spread in expression are called recessives such as recessive red and recessive white.
A "reduced red" can be many things, it depends on if the bird is ash red or recessive red. For example, a "peach lace" is a recessive red pigeon expressing the "reduced" gene. Like spread, reduced is not a color, it is a modifying gene that changes the base color.
Badges and beards are pie bald markings. A badge has a little white blaze over the waddle (nose) and some white around the head along with white under the beak. A beard only has white under the beak and around the lower head. Badges and beards both have white flights and usually at least some white tail feathers.
The white part of these markings are what makes them a badge or beard, and those markings can appear on just about any color in the pigeon spectrum as long as they don't contrast with other pie bald-related markings.
A saddle is another form of pie bald which renders the bird mostly white, with color residing on its back and upper shoulders as well as the neck.
Don't be alarmed about not understanding what someone posts in regards to a particular color or marking. It will come in time if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the different colors and patterns. In rollers, there is so much non-manuscript matings that often the results can be rather hard to determine. But with some experience you will begin to understand it.
One really good way to see first hand what colors are is to attend a large pigeon show. Here you will see classes of the same colors (labels on the cages will tell you the color or marking).
Brian.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
166 posts
Sep 29, 2005
8:24 PM
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Looks like Dan beat me to the punch...LOL.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
304 posts
Sep 29, 2005
10:15 PM
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I wouldn't loose sleep over it as it won't help you breed better Rollers, the basics will come in time.
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Sep 29, 2005 10:17 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
477 posts
Sep 30, 2005
3:48 AM
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Fr.Mike.I know exactly how you feel.I am sure we have all been there sometime in our life.I remember well how I was.Here was all these different markings and colors and all I knew was the basic Blue Bar,Blue Check,Black etc.When I seen a Yellow I had no idea it was a Dilute Red.
Then I met Bob McGuan @ Slobberknockers thru the Innernet and He finally after years of teaching & coaching me got me to where I can understand a lot of the Genetic makeup of rollers.It is definately something you are not going to learn overnite but the basics are fairly easy to learn as long as you keep at it.The thing that really helps is to breed some young and take pics of them and ask questions.Above all keep good records of breeding as sometimes the only way to tell a background of a bird is thru breeding from it.Myself I enjoy the Genetic side of rollers as much as flying them.As someone said ask questions.There is no such thing as a Dumb Question unless you don,t ask it.LOL. David
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highroller
55 posts
Sep 30, 2005
6:46 AM
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Fr. Mike,
Lots of good advice posted here already.....don't lose any sleep over it but keep pecking away at it and learning too. And don't forget that the roller is a performing breed and keep performance in mind in all your matings.
Dan
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Alan Bliven
243 posts
Sep 30, 2005
11:36 AM
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Definitions of genetic terms are easier to find. What about Roller specific terms? Many times the newbie may look at conversations in Roller forums and it might as well be in Greek.
Are there any websites that define Roller specific terminology? Such as: Plate Roller, Switching Wings,
The Hole, Twizzle, "H" Pattern etc etc.
BTW... I like Slobberknocker's color chart the best but here's a couple of other good genetics sites:
http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/Page1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/pigeongenetics/index.html
Thanks,
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Alan
Last Edited by Alan Bliven on Sep 30, 2005 11:39 AM
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Shaun
104 posts
Sep 30, 2005
1:57 PM
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Tony picked up on my newbie comment some months ago as to how useful a glossary would be. However, he's clearly been somewhat busier with other things.
Isn't this something which could be a joint effort on the part of the many experienced flyers here?
You know, I initially read bucketloads of roller stuff, but I still came away with the idea that for a competition fly, it was held locally and all the guys would bring their birds along and release them in turn. The rollers would perform and return to their respective lofts, as they were all in the proximity of the central release point. Oh, such blissful ignorance from me who's hours away from any competition fly.
The other unexplained concept which had me guessing was 'turn'. I assumed this to mean when the birds, whilst flying, collectively changed direction - though for the life of me, I couldn't see why that such a normal bird movement should be a reason to score points. What really baffled me was imcomplete turns - a quarter, a half. I assumed this to mean that some birds wanted to do, say, a right, but the rest said 'nah, we're happy going this way'.
So, who's up for contributing to a glossary?
My first efforts, which really should be in alphabetical order, but aren't:
Roller: a bird which we absolutely refuse to describe as a bird that spins backwards with inconceivable rapidity, like a spinning ball.
Turn: a movement which has absolutely nothing to do with the birds' regular decision to collectively change direction as they fly in circles around the loft.
Outcross: the opposite to incross.
The moult: the time of the year when birds that you previously thought attractive, now look like they were mistakenly put in the dishwasher and you can't understand why they still seem intent on shagging each other. I mean don't you ever look in a mirror?
Water: a substance that, given a nanosecond of opportunity, rollers would prefer to bathe in than drink.
Food: the only available substance which bestows upon Mr Rollerman the deluded impression that he has control of his birds.
Hawk: another bird species, which is to rollers what Darth Vader was to the Jedi.
Perch: a man-made contraption, which some flyers feel enables them to determine the quality of rollers, regardless of their prowess whilst flying.
Colour/color (depending on where you're from): The part of the roller which would elicit far less comment if it had the decency to be transparent.
Competition: the place where the maniacal joust with rollers.
Back yard (garden). The place where the pussycats fly their rollers.
Pussycat: A species which elicits rather a lot of unfavourable comments, should they in any way interfere with the rollers.
Mouse: a humble species which can cock its leg in a roller loft and cause a disproportionate amount of angst.
Squab: The very young roller which spends its formative days surrounded by a wall of pigeon shit, whilst surviving on mum and dad's regurgitated breakfast/lunch/dinner.
Squeaker: The not-so-young roller which has decided it no longer wishes to live in a shit-house, eating the contents of its parents' innards - and has decided to go it alone, despite bigger birds trying to remove all its newly grown head feathers.
Scalping: Bigger bird's way of showing little bird who's boss.
Flyaway: A situation where a good many rollers collectively decide they want to live elsewhere.
You get the drift...
Shaun
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Fr.mike
23 posts
Sep 30, 2005
5:23 PM
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Thank you all sooo-much! I will have to read your posts a few times to digest the info but just these few posts have helped me a ton.I personally dont care if the birds are pink It's not were my interest lies but it does help to cary on a halfway intellegent conversation or follw someone-elses Thanks again!
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Slobberknocker
51 posts
Sep 30, 2005
5:44 PM
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Hey Guys,
I have just created a page on the NPRA Site for a glossary of Roller terms. Please check it out at www.performingrollers.com and go to the Glossary page. I just posted it so anyone with good definitions of the terms used, please let us know through the site. Also any other terms that should be added as well.
Thank you all.
Bob
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www.slobberknockerlofts.com
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big al
125 posts
Sep 30, 2005
6:31 PM
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Hi Brian How are things?
Quick question...
Regarding black birds... Were you saying that if I have a solid black pigeon but can look closely and see the bars in it that it's blue? (Blue Barred?) Would this be a blue spread?
Thanks!----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
169 posts
Sep 30, 2005
8:19 PM
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Hey Al.
The answer to your question about seeing the bar pattern through the black is the result of one dose (heterozygous) of the spread factor, amplified by the lack of color modifiers which tend to result in darkening effects. Two doses of spread (homozygous) 95 percent of the time completely conceals the underlying pattern. All black pigeons are some pattern underneath, the "window tint" if you will simply covers it up, and the darker the tint, the less you can see.
But, because you can't see any pattern through it, doesn't mean it is homozygous spread either. If the bird possesses particular color modifiers like dirty, kite bronze or even heavy grease quill, the underlying pattern may not be visible, even on a heterozygous spread blue pigeon. And yes, all black pigeons are spread blue pattern.
Brian.
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big al
129 posts
Sep 30, 2005
10:46 PM
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Thanks Brian.
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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