Fr.mike
24 posts
Oct 01, 2005
4:58 PM
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My breeding loft is almost done-two 5x8 with six individual nest box each plus fly pens---so I am getting ready to buy all the paraphernalia-nest bowls waterers etc.I live in Pa.
and it freezes up aprox. from late Dec. to mid feb.
So what type of nest bowls do you use clay? paper? plastic?(Oh my -I sound like the kid bagging my groceries)
Since it freezes i dont want to be chiping Ice in winter-My plan is to have a double set so i can just take the frosen ones out an place newly filled in.what would you all recamend? I am also open to hear of any other gadjets you think are esential.
Thank you all for your time and help.
Mike
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Velo99
97 posts
Oct 01, 2005
5:16 PM
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Mike,
I use 8``clay saucers for flower pots as nest bowls. They stay warm once the hens get it warm. I use milk jugs with a hole cut in the side for water. Be careful how big you cut the hole or the bird will get in it.
yits
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Oct 01, 2005 5:17 PM
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spinnerpigeon
43 posts
Oct 01, 2005
6:17 PM
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Hey Mike,
I build an 8"x8" square wooden nest bowl with about 2 1/2 - 3" sides. Just what I use.
Caleb
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ohaus
2 posts
Oct 01, 2005
6:19 PM
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Fr Mike,
I have used the pressed paper nest bowls for years, when they get too dirty, trash them and give the birds a new one. The use of milk jugs is cheap and the same applies, too dirty or cracked by freeze, chuck it.
Where do you live in PA? Born and raised in Butler, PA.
Jim
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Fr.mike
25 posts
Oct 01, 2005
6:40 PM
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Hey Ohaus-stewartstown-south of York-On Pa.Md. line
Thanks for input
Mike
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Alan Bliven
244 posts
Oct 01, 2005
9:56 PM
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Whatever you use for water make sure the birds can't poop in it or spill dried poop in it. Keep this in mind when looking at the fountains for sale. The same goes for food. Their water should be clean enough that you can drink from it.
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Alan
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Shaun
114 posts
Oct 02, 2005
3:50 AM
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Mike, over in England we get ripped off very easily if we're not careful. The clay-type bowls I heard were great as they were reusable and tended to breath more than the equivalent in plastic. Trouble is, the former were triple the price of the latter. It seems that as soon as something is designed for pigeons, the main buyers are racing pigeon fanciers, where the big money is - so, the cost triples. I've, therefore, been making do with the big, heavy plastic bowls and they've worked very well. After each round, they're easy to clean and re-use.
Anyhow, I went over to my French house a couple of weeks ago and stumbled across a general feed store, locally, which also had a pigeon section. Again, everything was geared for racers, but the cost was but a fraction of what it is in England. So, I came back armed with perches galore, feeders, drinkers and nice, heavy, clay nest bowls. But, what I also found was nest liners, about a quarter of an inch thick, made of some sort of breathable material, which fit snugly into the base of the bowl. It's starting to get colder now in England and my breeding birds have taken to these 'insulated' bowls very well indeed. Snug as... well, pigeons in insulated bowls.
You might have read in earlier posts about some squabs with wonky legs, apparently due to insufficient nesting material. Well, I've not had the 'damaged' squabs yet, but I do find that whilst some birds will pick up every spare feather, etc, to make a substantial nest, others hardly put anything in the bowl, so the risk of damaged squab legs is greater. I'm hoping that these insulated nest bowls will, therefore, serve a dual purpose - warmth and padding.
Shaun
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spinnerpigeon
44 posts
Oct 02, 2005
5:42 AM
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Hey List,
While on the subject of nest bowls, has anyone ever tried putting a small piece of carpet in the bottom of their bowls to help the youngsters to keep their footing (To help prevent splayed legged youngsters)??
Caleb
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Velo99
98 posts
Oct 02, 2005
5:57 AM
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I use felt and a couple of drops of hot glue to secure it to the clay bowls. Felt is cheap at any craft store. I have tried the plastic nest bowls and they seem to be too light and flip over unless you buy the pigeon specific ones; then the price goes up. I found clay bowls at Wal mart for 2 bux each last fall when they were cleaning out the garden section. Just keep an eye out through the year, they pop up all over.
yits
v99
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Shaun
115 posts
Oct 02, 2005
6:10 AM
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Now, that's the word I was grasping for - felt. That's what I've brought back with me in a pack of ten. Warm and padded to stop splayed-leg syndrome. Highly doubtful the stuff will be reuseable, though, once a couple of squabs have crapped all over it. I suppose carpet might have similar qualities, but aren't there chemicals in there?
Shaun
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Fr.mike
26 posts
Oct 02, 2005
9:01 AM
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Thanks to you all!I am still wondering about indivual nest box's-- that is as far as waterers do you guys use the soda bottle things or the oversized canary cup -and change them twice a day?When the birds are feeding babys--dont they need water all day long?--in other words If i use the little cups or the soda bottle and mid day or even 10min after I put it out it is frozen.How about guys way up north?I am right on the Mason dix line so we dont know if we are north or south Lol.
Thanks again for putting up wiyh these elementary questions!
Mike
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highroller
57 posts
Oct 02, 2005
10:27 AM
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Fr. Mike,
I'm in Michigan and deal with cold winters as well. I use gallon milk jugs with holes cut in the sides for water. I mount them on the outside of the cages so the birds can't get into them or poop in them. In the winter I cut most of the top off of them just leaving one side with the handle on it yet. This lets me pour hot water into them and shake out the ice block very quick and easy. I take a jug of warm/hot water out with me and pour a little in to free the ice block, then fill them with the warm water and I'm all set. Mine do very well with one serving of water per day over the winter, they drink enough before it freezes to last till the next day. If you are breeding in the winter you will have to give them water at least twice a day.
Dan
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Shaun
117 posts
Oct 02, 2005
11:09 AM
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Dan, I loved the bit you mentioned about the box over the nest bowls in winter to contain the heat when breeding. Have you done any winter breeding? If so, what's been your successes and problems? I'm in two minds about this, having taken a wide range of opinions. Some say go for it; others say wait until the warmer weather of spring.
Shaun
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highroller
58 posts
Oct 02, 2005
2:15 PM
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Shaun,
I have done winter breeding a few years. Even with extra precautions taken like box over the nest or low wattage bulb near the nest for heat, I had losses of about 25% of the babies to freezing. At this point I would only do it to raise a few rounds for someone who needed birds because I cannot fly the young at that time of year without heavy losses to hawks. If I were in your position and could fly without hawk trouble I believe I would try it at least the first year to get things going.
Dan
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Shaun
121 posts
Oct 02, 2005
2:26 PM
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That's the important point for me, Dan - I would prefer to get the major breeding program underway, without having to wait another six months before the warmer weather returns. 25% losses, you say? Not bad odds, I reckon. Someone mentioned that his cocks didn't get horny enough during winter, whilst someone else said the hens found it all something of a struggle. Still, nothing to lose is there? If it doesn't pan out, I can always postpone things until spring.
Cheers.
Shaun
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
486 posts
Oct 02, 2005
6:59 PM
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Shaun.I breed several pairs thru the winter.Most of my project breeding is done thru the Winter.I have 6 pair of Fosters that you can hardly pry off the young in winter.They are really good at fostering.I have some pairs that like to leave the nest before the young even come close to feathering out.These are warm weather parents and if you try to use these kind the losses are very high.I never have much of a problem untill the temps get down in the single digits.Our winters here in Pa. have been getting milder each year with only a few weeks of single and below temps.If your loft is fairly insulated good you will get by but expect some losses.Like you said "What have you got to lose." If you can get a jump start with a kit of birds early you are ahead.I like my first round of kit birds hatching around the middle of Jan. David
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siddiqir
52 posts
Oct 03, 2005
10:34 AM
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Mike, I use Plastic Weave Nestbowl
with Nesting Pads
and it works out really well.
Last Edited by siddiqir on Oct 03, 2005 10:38 AM
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Shaun
125 posts
Oct 03, 2005
10:53 AM
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David, that's not something I've seen mentioned before - the fair weather parents and the diehards through all weather - a very valid point for those intent on winter breeding. I've been trying out some crappy birds as fosters this year and I'm pleased to see that they've been great parents so far. But, now it's getting cold, what you've said has made me think.
Incidentally, I've always been aware of your experiments, once the main breeding season is out of the way. Can you elaborate a little as to what you do with these youngsters. I know this is going off at a tangent a bit, but it might be of general interest.
Shaun
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
487 posts
Oct 03, 2005
12:52 PM
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Shaun.I fly them just the same as any other kit.They sometimes don,t get as much flytime as the good weather kits but enough that I can tell if I want to pursue the matings later in the year.Sometimes I have good results and sometimes I have to scrap the whole plan.LOL.My biggest downfall is the wind in the winter.Seems like it is always windy here on the Ridge.I usually hold them in the training cage for a few weeks longer and they are much stronger when first released.And of course the Hawks are hungry all the time too.David
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Shaun
127 posts
Oct 03, 2005
1:09 PM
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Mike, as it was your post, a question springs to mind: are you around during the day to tend to matters. Many guys are out at work, so changing freezing water, etc, are chores which can often only be tackled at the start and end of the day. If your're around that bit more, some of these tedious chores won't seem as bad. My birds are sick of the sight of me, as I'm up and down to see them all day, so I'm hoping during winter to spot anything which doesn't look right, quite quickly, and rectify it before it's too late.
Which brings me back to earlier posts about the percentage of squabs dying during a winter breeding program - if the parents don't keep them warm enough, can't man intervene with a hair-dryer or something?
Shaun
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spinnerpigeon
45 posts
Oct 03, 2005
3:17 PM
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Hey Shaun,
I don't know the dimensions of your loft, but you might try heating it with a poultry light. It is a special light bulb and it kicks off some heat! You could try mounting one of them in your loft, but I have never tried it with Pigeons, so I am not sure if it would work or not. Just my .02
Caleb
P.S. Heres a link to one that might be worth a shot.
http://shop.incomsupply.com/shop/product.asp?dept_id=110206&sku=521264&
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Fr.mike
27 posts
Oct 03, 2005
3:22 PM
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Hey Shaun thanks for the info--to answer your Question- Yes i am home i work at home -my biggest fear is -when i get the birds i will be dirt poor because i will be in the loft and not in my shop!Lol!Hey bluesman where in Pa. are you? do you know Elric? I am about 20 min. south of him.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
488 posts
Oct 03, 2005
6:55 PM
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Fr. Mike.Yes I know Elric.One of the nicest rollerman you could ever hope to meet.He has been here several times to visit and even brings me Wheat & Milo when I run low.LOL.
Elric is approx. 2 hours East of me.
I live south of Harrisonville(Pop. 13) which is on US 30 between Breezewood and McConnellsburg.
Elric is bringing the Judge here on Oct.14th to judge the Finals.Maybe you could join the convoy that is following him here.It would be nice to meet you.Birds might be a disappointment but the coffee should be hot.LOL. David
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Shaun
129 posts
Oct 03, 2005
11:17 PM
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Mike, they certainly ara a distraction and one I hadn't factored in. I now do less of my 'proper' work as I've spent so much time with the birds, building lofts and mulling over items to buy. I mean just the research as to which feed to buy and from whom all takes time. So, yes, be prepared to do less work at home than you used to.
Celeb, electricity to my lofts is a work in progress and once done, a heated light is a good idea.
David, have you tried any tricks with heat/light to sustain the birds' interest in breeding and to keep things warmer?
Shaun
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upcd
37 posts
Oct 04, 2005
1:34 AM
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Greeting to all my Roller Friend out there. I've not been on for awhile had a cookie issue. So I ate them all> LOL I like Costco boxes myself. I get the divided ones with a lip so the baby stays put. So each box has 2 nesting sites and they are stackable. I put cedar shaving at the buttom, then pine needles and dried grass. They can add more, but I start them out so thier is no splayed leg. And when they are fowled you toss them away. For water I start out with an old book self. lower level is where 3 water bottles go. So they are kept clean. And the birds can run around on the other levels. Great recycling!
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J_Star
67 posts
Oct 04, 2005
5:11 AM
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The water in the winter time is not really an issue. The birds drink less in the winter than in the summer. Just change the water when you feed them since they always drink after feeding.
You do not need to heat the loft for them either. They are hardy and they keep themselves worm. Give them a litter extra feed than usual and add 10% corn to their daily feeding. Corn creates heat for them to stay worm. Always keep them away from draft. Draft will make them sick. I did not have any problem with them getting cold or thirsty in the winter time. Here in northeast Ohio we get temp below 10 minus degrees sometimes and snow falls pretty much in a consistent basis.
Soon, you will start spending less time with your birds after you get to know them good and you will get back to your normal daily stuff.
Jay
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Shaun
130 posts
Oct 04, 2005
8:55 AM
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Jay, we're more on about the squabs than the older birds. Guys are mentioning, say, 25% losses due to the cold and/or some parents leaving the nest a little too quickly, before the youngsters are fully feathered. In order to counteract that, the thought of a little artificial heating seemed it might be an option to minimise losses.
Shaun
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siddiqir
53 posts
Oct 04, 2005
11:43 AM
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I think it all boils down to good parents. If parents or faster not doing the job then there will more losses. All other things may help a bit but not much...
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Fr.mike
28 posts
Oct 04, 2005
3:25 PM
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Hey David (Bluesman) I know about the 14th. I am going to do my best to be there! It will be great to meat you. Elric is contagious hes so pumped up he gets me excited and I dont even have birds yet!
Shaun--I concur --I am feelig guilty when I am working on my loft and my Clients are calling me ( AE YOU DONE YET) and I am talking to them on the phone from the loft! Lol!
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
489 posts
Oct 04, 2005
5:48 PM
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Yes I have tried the heated loft and even done a heated kit box.It don,t work for rollers if you plan on flying them.They just don't do good and wind up puny or sickly.At least that is what I wound up with.
Like Sid said it is up to the parents or fosters to get them to where they are feathered out.After that they can make it on their own.You will still lose some but the ones that make it are tough little boogers.
Fr.Mike.Yes Elric can get you fired up.He does a lot to promote the hobby and flying.And think nothing of traveling several hundred miles just to watch a kit fly.LOL.
I see he called me twice today.Archery Season is in and my days don,t have enough hours to keep caught up.I gotta fly some kits tomorrow so maybe I can relax and watch a roll or two and get caught up on my messages. David
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