siddiqir
68 posts
Oct 10, 2005
12:33 PM
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What you guys think?
1 Pair Blue Bar Muffed Rollers Pensom Blood
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highroller
64 posts
Oct 10, 2005
3:46 PM
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There would be a huge paper trail to follow all the way back to the 1950's to prove they are pure Pensom stock. Then you are still left with the question...were they flown and bred selectively for the roll for all those years or just pedigree bred for the $$? I think it would be a crapshoot, maybe OK and maybe not. What do you know about the seller? Where did he/she get them from and what have they done with them while hey had them? Too many questions unanswered to spend a lot of money on them in my opinion.
Last Edited by highroller on Oct 10, 2005 3:46 PM
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birdman
68 posts
Oct 10, 2005
6:13 PM
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Sid,
Aren't you flying the Mee birds? If I was flying the Mee pigeons I think I would stick with those. Aren't you happy with the Mee birds?
I would say Rick's track record speaks for itself. Does the seller have a track record?
Russ
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Alan Bliven
249 posts
Oct 10, 2005
7:07 PM
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Personally, I don't think it amounts to a hill of beans whether or not they are pure Pensom blood after more than 50 years! You could take the best Pensom had and ruin them in a few years... let alone 50!
On the other hand they may have been improved, who knows. But just because they are pure Pensom blood means nothing after all these years.
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Alan
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Alohazona
71 posts
Oct 10, 2005
8:18 PM
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Sid,what are you looking for in rollers?The reason I ask is,Pensom rollers are not hard to find,they are generally hard,fast spinners that come into the roll later, rather than sooner,There are lots of breeders out there who have kept them pure blood,but whether they are,or have been mixed up,it comes down to what the breeder is selecting them for;individual performance,the show pen,or collective performance,etc,
I have muffed blue bars,blue checks,grandaughters of Hatchers #266 cock,pure smith plona,its nice to know where they come from,but its up to me,to keep that blood from degenerating.
I am a dual purpose roller breeder,I have familys I breed for deep,hard spinning individual performance.I also,and just recently started breeding rollers for collective performancce,these birds have been cultivated for the competitions which seems to be the more popular type of roller being bred for today.Personally,I value the DEEP SMOKERS,they are the ones I check first when I walk into my loft,they are birds of CHARACTER & DISTINCTION.Find out what you want out of rollers and breed for it,or do like I do and indulge in the best of both,it can be done don't let anyone tell you it can't be done.Aloha,Todd
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nicksiders
231 posts
Oct 10, 2005
8:36 PM
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If you are flying Mee birds I would recomend that you stay with those birds even if it were a "pure Pensom" bird.
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motherlodelofts
330 posts
Oct 10, 2005
9:52 PM
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Todd , what is the difference between a deep smoker and a competition bird ?
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 10, 2005 9:52 PM
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Alohazona
72 posts
Oct 10, 2005
11:36 PM
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Scott, a Deep smoker is a bird doin 40 foot plus,the spin is ball bearing smooth-none better,these birds will be more individual or take off from a waterfall break which of course would not be scoreable,most will snapout and race back to the kit some will get back ,just not as fast as the majority,these birds generally dont roll loose just to roll because the majority is,they just roll with speed almost every time,whether they drop and go deep,or spin fast like a ball in the air.
Rollers cultivated or meet the Ideals of the scorecard or the judge interpereting the rules of competitions,have an undeniable trait for team work ,and of course,5 or more birds rolling simultaneously with good quality for 10foot is the min allowable for scoring.
Scott,I have familys that represent both and both I am getting better result for the competition flys,these are are qualitys I'm happy with 350 something otherdays of the year.To try and define for you a competition roller,other than a bird that rolls in good style,often and can keep doing it as it ages,is the closest I can get.These are qualitys coupled with traits,tempered with management,both you and I know its not easy to get it in a total package,I enjoy both, just have a regard for the individual,maybe its emmulating my personality,althogh I'm definetly a team worker,just ask the boys in the shop[lol].Aloha,Todd
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
496 posts
Oct 11, 2005
3:35 AM
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Todd.You and I think a lot alike.LOL.Good Post.David
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
497 posts
Oct 11, 2005
3:38 AM
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Sid. If you are questioning these birds for sale as to the Muffed part: Yes some Pensom rollers had Muffs. David
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motherlodelofts
331 posts
Oct 11, 2005
7:36 AM
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Todd I thnk that what you described are what we all are shooting for although for 99.999999 0/0 of birds once you pass that 40 ft mark it becomes a stability issue and qaulity is anything but ball bearing smooth, if they can hold it they fight it at the end and tend to come out funky which ruins anything prior to that.
Most of such birds will end up dead or they get a handle on it a shortning up into the 30 - 40 ft mark , if and once they do this qaulity and speed improves also.
The best of birds are only capable of handling the roll only so long .
I also find that the birds that are rolling out of the kit inbetween breaks not to be my better birds qaulity wise either, they have too quick of a trigger and try to hold back.
My best qaulity birds with depth you will generally see on the breaks.
Ten foot doesn't fly here either though, but most the time depth hinges on the condition of the birds and the condition of the kit as a whole , when the kit is too strong they will role much shorter, when they are in proper roll condition they will hammer hard with quite a bit of depth , when thy are in too good of roll condition they will roll with even more depth and frequency but qaulity suffers big time.
Qulity and extream depth do not go hand in hand , qaulity from start to finish has to always supercede everything else , because without out it nothing else matters.
As for the originial question posted here, Allan pretty well summed it up.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 11, 2005 7:56 AM
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BR Rollers
15 posts
Oct 11, 2005
8:20 AM
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I think most of you guys may have strayed from Sids post here.
I don't think he mentioned anything about Ricks birds either? Do you really believe that anyone lucky enough to have Ricks birds would get rid of them for unknowns? Just silly reading to me personally speaking.
I did look at that post and also noticed that this person had another post for a 10 bird kit and 5 breeder pairs!
I to am curious about this? And "No" I am not getting rid of my Norm Reed line of birds due to curiousity..lol
Why would this person be selling this pair of Muffed Bluebar Pensom Rollers separately from his other 20 birds? If they were kept so pristine for all these years would he have only one pair of them? So I asked myself, what are these other birds he has for sale.
I sent 4 emails on different days and they have all been opened and read! I haven't gotten any return on any of them? I guess my questions are now answered.
BUYER BEWARE!
Ronnie
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siddiqir
71 posts
Oct 11, 2005
9:56 AM
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Mee Birds are doing really well for me. I also found a click pair (but kind of little early to say) which is throwing good youngsters (very smooth, fast, rolling 30+).
The reason for posting is I would like to know how good these birds are. Pure Pensom blood? blue bar? muffed? sound like champion birds...
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nicksiders
234 posts
Oct 11, 2005
11:04 AM
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Probably not any better than your Mee birds.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
498 posts
Oct 11, 2005
2:38 PM
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Sid.I think you are asking the wrong people if they are good.How would anyone other than the seller be able to answer that question? David
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