|
The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Breeding Through The Winter
Breeding Through The Winter
Page:
1
Phantom1
34 posts
Oct 19, 2005
12:28 PM
|
When do you guys typically put your pairs together? And do you allow them to actually raise through the Winter months? And how long do you typically allow them to raise before splitting up pairs?
What are the benefits to your methods? What are the setbacks if any?
Eric
|
motherlodelofts
366 posts
Oct 19, 2005
12:58 PM
|
Eric I started about a month early last year (end of Dec) verses end of Jan or beginning of Feb. Personally I didn't like it and breeding just seemed to sputter and was hard to get them kicked into gear, I also had some losses once the second round was laid due to too cold of youngsters.
I will get the same in late Jan. but it just doesn't last as long.
Come the end of Feb is when they kick into gear no matter when I start.
I like splitting them up in late June Early July ,I don't like breeding through the heat of Summer and it puts alot of wing time on them before the short days arrive bad weather and hawks.
Plus I'm able to cull kits down from the Dec through mid Spring where it is much more manageable for a period of time. In fact I'm looking at birds real hard to send down the road to get down as it is just to hard to train 4 youngster kits with work and shorter days which will only get harder.
I'm thinking that next year I will breed only 3 youngster kits, which overall is a good thing as no kits will get left behind and I can hone in around the best easier. I also keep an old bird team but they only need to be flown a couple time's of week.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 19, 2005 2:01 PM
|
Phantom1
35 posts
Oct 19, 2005
1:24 PM
|
Scott,
So best to have your kits raised by late July, and get them up before the shorter days, etc. Correct?
I have the same concern about the fatilities during the cold months. But with me trying to cut back on pairs and focus down on that gene pool, I won't be raising many youngsters if I postpone putting pairs together in late January/early February. Make sense? Additionally, I only fly from one kit box, so if I have a second round on it's way out, I had to make sacrifices this year with those that had been flying for 2 or so months just to get the next youngsters training. I'm going to try to correct that issue with the kit box this coming year - depends on what Momma has to say about it!!!
Eric
|
motherlodelofts
367 posts
Oct 19, 2005
2:08 PM
|
Eric I would say that you seriously need a second box , if you have to can two mo. old birds for room it is hard to see what is what expesially when you are trying to work things out as far as proving breeders.
Yea, the more wing time the better before late Fall/Winter , I have bred through Summer and into mid Fall and they just didn't develope the same (longer) plus the cocks just ruin themselfs due to they get cocky before developing the roll.
Scott
|
highroller
74 posts
Oct 19, 2005
2:19 PM
|
eric,
if you have the room you could use some of the pairs you are cutting out as fosters for the pairs you want to concentrate on. then it won't take all summer to get a kit together.
|
Phantom1
36 posts
Oct 19, 2005
2:37 PM
|
I had thought about the whole "foster" thing. To really be effective, you almost need 2 pair to every 1 pair that you want to concentrate. I definitely don't have that much room! LOL!!!
I would really like to get another kit box built. I had to cut the early birds from this year off, move them out, and train the next round. So the early birds really never got a full fair chance at developing.
But so be it! If I only raise 8 youngsters a round, then I'll have two kits of 8 youngsters to work with. Quality before quantity. If it's there, then I really should only need 16 youngsters to prove out. If it's not, well then that made that next decision a whole lot easier now didn't it!
|
Shaun
166 posts
Oct 20, 2005
11:41 PM
|
Scott, can you elaborate a bit. Are you saying that your ideal breeding 'window' is about three months, then you split the pairs up?
How many rounds are you generally producing in your timescale?
What age difference of youngsters have you found acceptable, in that the kit isn't affected by the different ages? For example, would you put birds together in a given kit which are from rounds, say, a month or more apart, or do you find you have to keep birds together which are closer in age?
Shaun
|
maxspin
5 posts
Oct 21, 2005
5:53 AM
|
Eric,
No you don't need 2 pair of fosters for every breeding pair. Even (1) pair of foster will almost double the young out of your favorite pair.
Every little bit helps.
Keith
|
motherlodelofts
380 posts
Oct 21, 2005
10:35 PM
|
Yes Shaun, late Feb early March they start kicking in hard, June mid to late June I'm winding it down but the last rounds are hitting the kitbox in the last half of July.
As for the youngsters, it's a building process , the first box sputters as far as filling it, I'll hold the first back from getting out until I have at least 10 -15 then I'll get them out and airborne , by then they learn the feed tray and whistle.
Then I'll start another box , and basicly do the same thing but it fills much faster as the breeders are starting to kick in.
Then I'll start the third, by this time the first ones in the second box are strong on the wing and kitting and I will pull the strongest out and polish off the first box, when I do this they are on the same page as far as training .
In other words I do some shuffling from one box to another moving the strongest one's to the older group to fill the boxes , but I'm not throwing in just weaned birds , or birds just barely up and not knowing the ropes with birds that are all ready strong on the wing and kitting well.
For one, just weaned babies food requirements are different and plus it just creates turmoil for training and what not.
Age differences are no more that two weeks or so per box at first, but they hit a point where you can move them with slightly older birds with no difficulty.
Once they are at least 3 monthes old or so you can pretty well move them to any of the youngster teams where ages vary quite a bit , but not to your old bird team.
A bird won't see the old bird team until it's at least 8 mo old if needed but I prefer older , if I do cheat one into the A team that is faily young it will get a heavier ration than the old birds , I really don't like moving a bird up into the A team until the following Spring unless I really need it.
Once the youngbird teams are complete there will be the older one's starting to come into the roll , once I have enough to start building some sort of youngster team that roll I do this (normally around Sept). Once I hit that point these are the only one's that I will shuffle around, otherwise you disturb the chemistry that they develope together.
All the y/b teams have different colored spiral bands , this tells me the team that they are in and gives me an indication of the age to some degree.
I hope this isn't to confusing ,but it is systematic for me, and make's training easier and doesnt disturb the birds developing the roll .
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Oct 21, 2005 10:48 PM
|
Velo99
122 posts
Oct 22, 2005
3:23 PM
|
Guys,
I intend on using a poly/foster system to get a start on my new line.
I was adding the up days to get the sync. About thirty days. It seems to me that it isn`t a really time efficient system. I have five pairs, two I want to poly and one I want to pump,leaving two pair for fosters.I need 40 birds this season. I have cocks to go with all of the hens and help in the rearing.
I have built one box as a prototype. Three 12x14x12 compartments per unit,screened to the center so the cock can see the hens. Once I breed the poly cock to the hen I can put the hen in with the regular cock in another box,right?
On the foster deal, I know I have to time the pigeon milk deal on the fosters with the alpha pair within 2-3 days. I have dummy eggs to take care of that. I guess I have to keep the fosters slightly ahead of the alphas so I can dummy them and make it work. It seems to me to be a difficult practice to get this timing just right. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Oct 22, 2005 3:24 PM
|
Shaun
178 posts
Oct 28, 2005
10:14 AM
|
Scott, thanks for your reply about your breeding schedule. I've been doing work in my manky old French house this week, so I forgot to answer you. Well, now here I am with another question for you, which is still linked to winter breeding.
Let's suppose you've no comp flying agenda, so there's no need to tailor your breeding to any particular timescale - you just want to churn out plenty of young birds to evaluate. OK, I'm talking me here. This is the road of breeding lots, flying out the youngsters to evaluate them, then picking the best from the air. If you were in my position, would you still think it best to fly the youngsters as near in age as possible, or just keep adding new ones as and when they're bred to a growing kit, then start a new kit when the old one gets too big.
And finally, going back to your own setup, at what age do you decide that a given youngster doesn't deserve to be in any of your various kits and you get rid of it?
Cheers.
Shaun
|
Velo99
129 posts
Oct 28, 2005
1:58 PM
|
Guys,
Referring to Shauns post about the numbers game. When one STARTS a program is it possible to be too critical of the offspring? Fly hard and cull harder. Is it better to keep all of them except the really horrid ones for a couple of years to see where one is at in the following categories?
Are the breeders producing the numbers and quality? Do you have preventable losses in the breeders loft? Do the young have longevity in the roll after a couple of seasons, do they crash and burn or stiffen to the point of culling? Do the young come in at the same rate. Do the birds in the kit have about the same feed requirements? Do they respond the the same/similar roll stimuli? Kitting? Early landing?
Which of these is management and which is genetics?
It would seem to me the second course would be the ideal way for a new line to be measured. Would it be too much to fly the second season and not even breed, see where the second season leads? Line breeding inbreeding poly breeding fosters and on and on. Lot of stuff to decide on before I even pair the first pair of birds.
Just some questions I wanted to ask. I would like to not make the same mistakes as others that have preached their hindsight. I have read a lot of material about breeding and building a kit of champions. If I am going to do this, spend all of this time and effort. I want to raise the best birds I can from what I have. It would be nice to have a good kit on the first season but I am thinking three or four years to even have a number of good birds to choose from.
YITS
v99
|
Vibey
27 posts
Mar 06, 2006
3:32 PM
|
I personally do not breed through the winter , as in canada where i am , if the parents go off the nest for more than a few minutes , the young will freeze. Ive caught them the odd time , in time , when the young were stressed but still alive , and have brought them indoors and hand raised them, but this is not for everyone. Just from experience , ive found it better to toss any eggs laid after november and b4 march. I generally let my birds have eggs laid in early march, as by the time the eggs do hatch , it's almost april , and the temps are a little milder and the young have a better chance .
Vibey
|
upcd
174 posts
Mar 06, 2006
10:33 PM
|
I am here in Sunny Southren California. My birds have not broken up. But during moult they don't breed. So there is a natural break thanks to nature itself. However there are always someone breeding, while others are not.
Last Edited by upcd on Mar 06, 2006 10:35 PM
|
knaylor
72 posts
Mar 07, 2006
4:55 PM
|
Guys, I feel that it is always better to give your hens a break during the winter. Plus how do you train the younsters during Hawk season???
|
Post a Message
|
|
|