Alan Bliven
271 posts
Oct 22, 2005
2:17 PM
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Should there be color standards for the Birmingham Roller that would exclude rare colored birds, splitting the breed into two distinct breeds?
With some of the hatred of rare colored birds, I have heard talk that this should be done to put a stop to the friction between the two sides.
Would the NBRC agree to this?
What's your opinion?
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Alan
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highroller
76 posts
Oct 22, 2005
4:09 PM
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I think it would be hard to do. In the same family you can get blue checks and "rare" colors. Would the blue checks from such a family have to compete in the "rare" colors category because of their background?
How would a person prove his blue checks were pure old line and not down from any "rare" birds?
I can see even more division there if someone won a standard color fly with blue/red checks/bars etc. and then was accused of flying impure stock down from "rares" and got disqualified.
A person could have been breeding the standard colors for 20 years but they would be impure if there was a "rare" color bird in the family 20 years ago based on opinions expressed here so no one could really say with assurance that they have 100% pure standard colors.
We all just need to get along and respect eachother's position. We can disagree but should not disrespect.
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nicksiders
253 posts
Oct 22, 2005
9:26 PM
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The NBRC is only interested in the performance aspect and I do not believe color has anything to do with thier mission or charter.
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Alan Bliven
273 posts
Oct 23, 2005
8:27 AM
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I wrote a board member of the NBRC to see how they feel and here was a response:
"Alan:
Regarding the NBRC, the membership would have to be united and coordinated enough so that we would have an actual vote to change this standard.
As far as my opinion…
I think that the “hatred” towards colored birds may not be as intense as you may perceive.
Not everybody is against them… It’s just the guys that are against them tend to be very vocal in their opinion.
Many “colored birds” are derivatives of the Birmingham Roller family (bronzes, odd bars, etc.), so you would exclude some rollers that are simply “different colors” than there other family of birds.
This is an interesting point however… My personal thoughts are that I have seen some exceptional rollers that were considered colored birds and I wouldn't have any problems with them being considered some of the best of what the Birmingham Roller should be.
Thanks for your note,
**** "
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Alan
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Mongrel Lofts
58 posts
Oct 23, 2005
2:49 PM
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My opinion,
The NBRC should let any and all rollers fly in their competitions. My concern is not what or who is flying what. When it comes to roller competitions, if you can put up a team of oriental rollers, Vienna Tumblers, Rare colored crosses or Birmingham rollers that can out score all other kits flown on the day, they will win the NBRC Fall Fly. Thats how it should be and is. Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Oct 23, 2005 2:50 PM
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highroller
77 posts
Oct 23, 2005
3:42 PM
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So if the National BIRMINGHAM Roller Club should and does let any and all rollers compete and the best kit, no matter it's make up, gets the win. And Ken says "that is as it should be and is". And an officer of the NBRC holds this personal view..."My personal thoughts are that I have seen some exceptional rollers that were considered colored birds and I wouldn't have any problems with them being considered some of the best of what the Birmingham Roller should be".
Tell me again, what is the big arguement? If the performance is there everything else should be a non-issue, right?
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Alan Bliven
275 posts
Oct 23, 2005
4:06 PM
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I agree Highroller and Mongrel Lofts. It should be all about performance. But of course only a Birmingham Roller can perform to the fly standards of the NBRC.
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
276 posts
Oct 23, 2005
4:21 PM
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My opinion is if a color breeder doesn't breed for performance too, maybe they should be split into a seperate breed because the true Birmingham Roller has to be bred for performance. But all color breeders I know breed for performance. I believe there is some out there that don't, I just don't know them.
BTW... Scott, I do keep and fly Rollers.
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
277 posts
Oct 23, 2005
6:24 PM
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Here's another response to my question from another board member of the NBRC:
"If the Birmingham Roller spins that is the key, color means nothing. Rare colors that spin tight with expectational velocity will catch the eye of the judge just as the Blue and Red birds do. The fancier who discards a bird because of its color will also discard his spin gene pool.
He who discards because of color is the true color breeder, not vice versa.
The spinning Birmingham Roller should and never will be divided into two distinct breeds, that is impossible because a Birmingham Roller is a Birmingham Roller regardless of color."
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Alan
Last Edited by Alan Bliven on Oct 23, 2005 6:32 PM
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Alan Bliven
278 posts
Oct 23, 2005
6:48 PM
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Scott,
I just think your energy would be better spent trying to encourage the so called "color breeder" to put performance higher on his list of priorities and not try and stamp out all colored birds, run the color breeders out of the hobby and poison the minds of newbies against them. It's always easier to mold someone with being friendly rather than with hate.
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Alan
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Bill C
8 posts
Oct 23, 2005
7:28 PM
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Hey Alan, There is already two types of birmingham rollers and we don't need the NBRC to change anything. There is the true Birmingham roller breed bred for performance and there is the show roller.
Anyone who wants color instead of performance has the shows to attend and the rest will put the birds in the air and chose those that quality for the next breeding season or future stock birds.
Oppionins from everyone is always interesting to read. We may be divided when it comes to what makes up the best rollers now and then, but if we all get out and see more kits fly you will no doubt see the best birds around and they almost always are the same colored birds. I have several kinds of colors, re-red, balck, check, grizzle, badge, lavender ect. The best two birds I've seen so far has been a small checker and a black bird. They are the best I have to comtinue with in the future for this family or I will degress and not move forward. all these conversations are actually educational to the new guys who can read and hear from good flyers and those who fly and breed colors. It is my oppinion that the good flyers are flying in competitions and very few good kits are hidden from the competitions, at least others have those birds and fly them when the owner is not,if he has good rollers. So back to your original question. I don't think guys hate the colored birds, its when they say these are quality rollers in rare breeds and the new guy has yet to see the birds fly and compare them to the rest of the flying kits around. Rare colored birds have their place in the shows! Bill
Last Edited by Bill C on Oct 23, 2005 7:30 PM
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Alan Bliven
279 posts
Oct 24, 2005
5:37 PM
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Here's another response I recieved from a board member of the NBRC:
"I don't presume to speak for the NBRC and can only offer my opinion on this matter. I feel the Birmingham Roller as a breed was and is cultivated for it's rolling and flying abilities, color should not be an issue. There are a handful of fanciers who try to belittle those who have birds of color, but these are in the minority. The fear they exhibit is probably based on the premise that to breed for color is contrary to the breeds flying abilities. This may or maynot be true depending on the individual breeder. As the NBRC has in recent years only held show type events to help the fancier see and hold true arerial performers, not to promote the showing of rollers, the class has always been flying rollers, regardless of color. I personally, having been as a child a show person, see no advantage to establishing any classes for shows. The damage that this can and has done to the breed by changing the fanciers focus away from the air to the show pen has created many a brewhaha. Therefore I do not support any standards of any kind for the showpen, the only standard I support is in the air, regardless of color.
Thanks"
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
280 posts
Oct 24, 2005
5:38 PM
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Bill,
The question isn't about show rollers. The question is about performing Rollers with rare colors.
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Alan
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LONGS ROLLER LOFT
6 posts
Oct 24, 2005
6:03 PM
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I think anyone that has a rare color bird that rolles frequent, tight, and fast should cull the bird and mail it to me. I will be glad to pay postage.
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yours in the sport Rick
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motherlodelofts
392 posts
Oct 24, 2005
7:04 PM
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Allan if you are breeding them for their color , isn't that for show ?
Scott
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Alan Bliven
281 posts
Oct 24, 2005
8:05 PM
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I just recieved another response:
"My personal opinion is that the NBRC leadership and members-at-large would not agree to dividing the classification based on color. Regardless of appearance, the birds are the same breed... so couldn't be split based on anything but color.
There are a few individuals who are diehard, anti-color who would be in favor, but I think when it really came down to it many of them wouldn't want that division either.
Hope this answered your inquiry."
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Alan
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Alan Bliven
282 posts
Oct 24, 2005
8:26 PM
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Scott,
That could be the motives of some... but for who's eyes? I doubt many enter them in pigeon shows to try and win trophies, but I could be wrong. If they are breeding only for pigeon shows then it can't be a performance Roller but most people I know that have colored Rollers keep them for their own eyes.
My personal B. Rollers are all common colored and that's good enough for me but I like common white Fords and my neighbor likes bright red Chevys. That's his prerogative as long as both have the same performance, color and brand shouldn't matter. Performance has to be the bottom line here.
You are right, beauty to me isn't just in the paint job. I have a blue check beard that just glows with beauty (in my eyes) on the perch. But someone else may like a Homozygous Dominate Opal but I'm not jealous and won't deprive him of his tastes as long as that bird can perform too.
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Alan
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motherlodelofts
393 posts
Oct 24, 2005
8:36 PM
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Alan actually there are some that breed performance type birds for show.
S. Calif is popular for it.
But on the same hand flying is king down there also.
Scott
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upcd
52 posts
Oct 24, 2005
11:55 PM
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Is it so wrong to want the best of both worlds. I don't mind looking at a beautiful performer. No matter what color. That what make pigeons enjoyable. If there were no genes to play with, what a boring hobby. So it's yellow,red,or white. Who cares?
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