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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Extreme velocity and wing position
Extreme velocity and wing position
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merced guy
2 posts
Oct 25, 2005
12:24 PM
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Hello all, this is my first time here so like to make an intro of myself as this is one great learning tool for me thus far in my roller journey.
My name is Thong Moua, I am 30 years old and reside in Merced, CA (central CAL)Ive been in rollers for almost two years now.
breeds: I have Joe Urban and Dave Henderson line of rollers.
goals with rollers: be up there with the top guys someday.
end.
well since Ive learn so much from roller people in this board, I thought maybe I can share some info with you all about extreme velocity and wing position in our rollers while in the spin.
It seems obvious that no matter what family our rollers originate from, there seems to be a varied array of wing positions in our rollers when they are spinning, but at extreme velocity, and when I say "extreme" I mean that is it in terms of speed in the spin.
Now I am not here to favor nor condemn any wing position as most of you roller men already know your own preference, so there is no need for validation of any particular wing position. But let us not forget the fact that all wings positions creep up in the same family.
to the point, and no BS, there seems to be an accepted concensus that both H and A style birds are prefferred over the rest, so lets focus on this and not stray from these two for simplocity.
now , in my own "personal" observation of my own rollers and of others families that I have seen, there seems to be two very unique and distinct qualities from the H and A birds that I have observed and have not yet heard of it in this board and doubt if many people have seen this. First and MOST IMPOTANT, let me say that only a few birds from anyones's loft will you find this spectacular feet of extreme velocity birds. and lets be honest here. for if one has not seen it yet than after reading this post, go out and check your fastest birds and see if you see it. so now if you can think back to your own observation maybe that will help guide you while reading this post.
But before this let me make clear of one more point, we all have heard of the "blurr" and when trying to describe this some can't put it in words, other than a "blurr," others call it "ball bearing smooth," yet others call it the wings are not align strait or not balance so you see the wings blurring, and still others insist that a blurr is a fine example of a very fast spinner. I believe all ot the above have some truth to it as this is how we, the naked eye, can describe this blurr. but some of us can attest that a very fast bird is the same as a blurr or else we can see some rotation. Even some conclude that a very fast bird will not fall fast or that it can hold the spin for so and so seconds; yet there are those that have blood in their eyes or have spun their guts out; indeed all of these are fine examples of good observation of our rollers and these pionts do have some merit regarding exteme velocity.
But apart from this, i have observed two very distinct actions of the wings in few rollers with extreme velocity.
and yes I am talking about the front or back view and not the side view. In the regular H style birds, when in extreme velocity the straight line of the H looks rather more oval () than regular H. some call this () as a shrunken A, I am not sure if this is the right discription as it loooks more like an H that has been bent due to some other force. The tips of the top of the wings are bent inwards almost like touching. youll get what I mean if you have seen this. A reason could be that due to extreme velocity, friction is causing the tips to bent inward as air is rushing by so fast. remember that this bird is still a true H bird. now some of you might say that oh, the bird is not balance or may have weak or soft primaries so thats why it is bent at the tips, yet others might argue that this might be a regular wing position between the H and the A, but I mind you next time look at your two fastest birds and see if you can compare them. In my observation it is not a variation between the A or H bird, but a bird which posses exteme velocity, because there is also another similar variation with the A style birds also and that is my next point of discussion.
Now if you have seen an A style bird you all know that we will see the regular A frame with wings straight up and in like touching each other to form a triangle as the naked eye can see. But have you seen A style birds that have the two lines which meets at the tops bent inward also, if you have seen this you know what I mean and if you have two very fast A style birds you can make your own compaison and see if the inward A bird is just a tad faster than your reguslar A. just some food for thought.
Please understand that i am not here to discredit anyone. as we all know that the A and H style birds are already set in stone on a consensus. but what I am saying is we might be missing something rare in our extreme spinners if we can't carefully defferientiate any.
please share your observations and your thoughts on this topic.
thanks in advance
thong
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nicksiders
258 posts
Oct 25, 2005
10:57 PM
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Damb Thong, I wish I could see that well. I may be that I am not concentrating hard enough to see what you see and are describing.
I am going to try to observe closer and see if I can verify what you are seeing. I think that is why most of us describe it as a blurr because we are unable to pick up the wing position and only understand it as a blurr.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
217 posts
Oct 25, 2005
11:17 PM
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I've seen it. I remember the first time I saw it, a red check hen given to me as a squeaker hit a roll coming at me and she looked like a vertical frisbee coming down at me. I can still picture it to this very day. I have a blue check hen that does it on occasion, when she is really in the groove and hitting on all cylinders. One day I saw her do it at least a half dozen times, wings touching top and bottom. But most of the time she is just a good H pattern bird. A black self hen I raised this year can do it, again, on the days she is tuned just right. The other times she is just an H pattern bird.
Are any of those three any faster than some of my other high X or H birds? As a whole I would say no. I even had a low X winger that could flat out smoke it hard. But it should be said that there is a point when fast is just plain FAST and it would be impossible to say that one is faster than the other.
In the ranks of some of the hardcore guys, they speak of motors, and I think that the motor has far more to do with speed than wing position does. I personally feel that particular wing positions are valued by what the particular flyer likes or has become accustomed to seeing.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
406 posts
Oct 26, 2005
6:51 AM
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Brians right , wing position and speed are two seperate things , flat out axel and x wingers can roll just as fast as any.
Thong it is "great" to see you analizing your birds for qaulity , the () that you describe is pushing the ultimate as long as it can hold it all the way through and snap out clean as a whistle.
Condition of the bird and also plays a factor as far as seeing the best that a bird has to offer.
Scott
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merced guy
3 posts
Oct 27, 2005
11:23 AM
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Nick, Scott, and Brian thanks for your imput, i had a feeling someone knew what I was talking about.
Quality is important to me, because without it, a roller is just a roller and indeed it is just that, but when one knows what quality is that to me is the next step up in the evolution of the spin.
thong
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Richard A.
71 posts
Oct 27, 2005
12:25 PM
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Thong, do you believe that a kit can have extreme velocity as well as extreme frequency??
If not, then a person that does have extreme velocity would not be competative.
Richard A.
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merced guy
6 posts
Oct 27, 2005
12:33 PM
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Richard,
two extremes is a dead end, and I am not talking about a whole kit i am talking about individuale bird. if you read my discussion right, I said something to the effect that we can only fine these rare birds a few in eachones' loft. sorry to confuse you.
thong
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Velo99
130 posts
Oct 28, 2005
2:07 PM
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Guys
I would think as long as a deep/fast bird kits well a few would be an asset to a comp kit. The average target seems to be around twenty feet. If one flew a few deeper birds they could very well "pull" a few of the 20`s into a slighlty deeper roll and hence a better turn. A spread on a turn of 15-20 feet would be pretty awesome if you asked me. How many turns would an average regional winners kit turn?What would be the guide line for too frequent? Is there a target number of turns for a 20 minute period?
YITS
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Oct 28, 2005 2:13 PM
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