LONGS ROLLER LOFT
8 posts
Oct 25, 2005
5:21 PM
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if I could fix just one problem with my birds this would be the problem I would like to fix My birds have a tendency to fly left wing. I know there are other fliers that have this problem I just never have figured out how to stop it. Does anyone have any ideas howor why it beginsor what causes it and how to stopthis.
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yours in the sport Rick
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motherlodelofts
398 posts
Oct 25, 2005
5:33 PM
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look for a problem bird or birds pulling them, these same birds will be on the top perches in the kitbox.
With my birds if they are too strong they will fly on the left wing also.
Scott
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Velo99
124 posts
Oct 25, 2005
5:36 PM
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This condition is usually the result of one or two birds that will lead the kit in a circular motion,usually counterclockwise. Watch when they fly and look for the same bird(s)leading them around to the left. If that doesn`t work,pull them one at a time til they stop.
yits
v99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
215 posts
Oct 25, 2005
7:27 PM
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Another thing you can do is to handle all of your kit birds and remove the ones that feel like they haven't been missing their turn in the feed tray. Often the culprits are the ones getting more than there share of feed. Take out the ones that feel bigger than the others, then fly the rest and see what they do.
Brian.
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big al
141 posts
Oct 25, 2005
7:36 PM
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Hi Scott
Elaborate a little on the top perch statement.
Thanks.----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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motherlodelofts
400 posts
Oct 25, 2005
8:34 PM
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Leaders Al, strong top perch type birds.
Scott
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Phantom1
61 posts
Oct 25, 2005
8:35 PM
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I'm assuming that flying on the "Left Wing" means that they're flying in a counter-clockwise motion? If this is so, does it also mean that the birds should always fly in a clockwise motion overhead? If so - why?
Thanks!
Eric
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motherlodelofts
401 posts
Oct 25, 2005
8:59 PM
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Eric you want them changing the wings that they fly on , it is at these points that "spark" a break.
You here flying figure 8 as ideal but terrain plays into this also, mine more meander overhead , with some figure 8.
When they lock into flying on one wing they generaly stiffen up.
Scott
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big al
145 posts
Oct 26, 2005
2:50 PM
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Hey Rick,
I'd maybe try Brian and Scott's advice first because it's much quicker.
Sometimes it's hard to pick out the culprit/s when flying with a team of 20. Here's what I do. It's very time consuming but has great results when done...
I start flying in small groups of 4 to 5 birds and watch them carefully giving them a chance to work together for a couple of days to see if they're still on one wing. If they stay on one wing, place them back in the box and choose 4 other birds to start with and go from there. I add the others in about 2 at a time every 2 days or so once the kit is doing okay. You'll be very suprised at how quickly the kit begins to fly patterns again once this bird/s is removed. This bird may show up right away or be the last one added. LOL!! Anyway 9 times out of ten you'll get it this way.
Also from time to time if a kit is being flown too much or getting more to eat than they need, they'll get lazy and fly on one wing but not with the swinging action they show when it's a culprit.
Just my .02 Hope this helps...
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Oct 26, 2005 3:20 PM
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LONGS ROLLER LOFT
10 posts
Oct 26, 2005
8:31 PM
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I truly do appreciate all the good advise. now I am going to see if I can make any of it work. I think I'll start with pulling the birds off the top purchs. That will be the easiest start.
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yours in the sport Rick
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motherlodelofts
409 posts
Oct 26, 2005
8:37 PM
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Rick it is just a good probability that they reside up there.
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Phantom1
70 posts
Oct 27, 2005
6:50 AM
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Okay, if a figure 8 is ideal, what's the best way to get your birds to fly in this manner? If the birds that reside on the top perches become problematic, and you removed them, won't others take the top perches in the box? Does this continue on and on?
I'm beginning to understand that you have to develop a balance within the kit, but help me understand how you go about doing it.
Eric
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merced guy
5 posts
Oct 27, 2005
11:58 AM
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Rick,
when my birds fly in that manner, often times it is because they are tire of flying, I wouldnt say lazy, and don't wanna fly, but because their owner wants to fly them. but soon it becomes a hibit and now you you have your problem. just think about it do you want to run a mile everytime someones says you have to? maybe its you and not the birds think about this for a little while you pobably fiquire out a solution.
thong
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
218 posts
Oct 27, 2005
12:51 PM
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Eric, I often have people ask me how I get my kits to fly the way they do. They are referring to the coursing figure eight pattern that my kits seem to exhibit routinely.
My answer is always, I have no idea...LOL.
Seriously, I have no idea, but mine do it more than any other kits I have seen in this area, which leads me to believe it has to do with the general landscape of the area as well as genetics.
I got rid of the fast flying, right or left wing birds a long time ago. As soon as they were gone, suddenly my kits started flying slower and coursing around more. I have tried to put a finger on why they do it, but I really have no idea other than geography. My house is carved into the slight rise of a small hill and I have about 7 acres of field around me. The freeway is the back of my property and on the opposite side is houses for a few blocks then some pretty tall hills.
My kits from the time they are first flying as squeakers with down still on their heads, they recognize the freeway behind me and the houses and road in front of my house. Their favorite place to fly is over the empty field, between the freeway and the road in front of my house. As they mature, they lift more and eventually once they start breaking, they start flying a coursing figure eight that stretchs north and south, which is basically between the boundaries the freeway and road sets. That is the only thing I can come up to as go why. There might be something through genetic selection that I just haven't discovered yet as well.
But one thing is certain, once you get a kit to fly a coursing figure eight, you will be hooked for life.
Brian.
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Phantom1
72 posts
Oct 27, 2005
1:15 PM
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And the purpose of this Figure 8 is to get more opportunities for breaks? Correct?
My kit this year didn't fly in a constant circle one way or another. They were, however, pretty much all over the place. There were times I thought they would just keep flying West. They didn't hang too tightly overhead and that's not good - I know.
We'll see what happens this next year. With me cutting back on the number of pairs and obtaining some new blood in - who knows what's going to happen, but I'll keep an eye on things.
Eric
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
219 posts
Oct 27, 2005
2:05 PM
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Eric, you really don't want them to hang tight straight overhead, otherwise that is what they will do when they get older. I like it when my squeaker kits use up the whole sky. I want them venturing in every direction as group. I think if your birds do this, they will feel more comfortable with their surroundings.
To answer your question about breaking, to a certain degree I think it depends on the families. Some families might need a little "incentive" to roll and I think often the slight rise and fall in altitude of some circling kits will lend themselves to a position to break fairly frequently, especially if their is even a hint of a breeze.
I prefer the figure eight-ish kind of flight because my birds break bigger on the straight run after making the turn. Another thing I noticed about this pattern of flight is that if a bird(s) roll before the turn or during the turn, often the kit will circle back around and pick them up before flying straight again towards the other end of the figure eight.
Keep in mind they don't fly this way all of the time in the air. Mine circle or course around until they reach the "sweet height" and then they start doing the figure 8 thing. Not every pass with be exactly a figure 8, but overall it sort of is. Hope that answered your question.
Brian.
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Ballrollers
124 posts
Oct 27, 2005
2:29 PM
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Brian, Scott, Would you cull these birds that contribute to left-wing flying, regardless of other performance qualities?
In other words, if you believe that it is a learned trait, wouldn't these birds have some value in the stock loft (assuming good speed, quality and depth). Or is it best not to take the chance because of some inherited flight characteristic? Perhaps it would be unusual to find all other qualities to be optimum in a roller, in combination with this one particular fault. It just seems to be a learned behavior, commonly. It's common in lofts that are surrounded by trees, for example (like mine!) Then in Bryan's setting-no problem! YITS Cliff
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Phantom1
73 posts
Oct 27, 2005
2:34 PM
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Brian,
Very much so! Thanks for the elaboration. I'll keep a close eye on them in the Spring and see what they do.
Eric
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big al
146 posts
Oct 27, 2005
4:08 PM
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Hi Brian,
I agree with you in that the 8 pattern is due in part to genetics. I have a pair who's babies begin to fly this pattern as soon as they're on the wing!! What causes it? I have no idea. LOL!! I wish I did. :-) Then there are those birds who just happen to catch on to the idea as time goes on. I do believe that the weather could possibly play a part depnding on your elevation and the winds. Not necessarily if they fly on one wing but how often? I also feel that birds being a little too strong play a part. If there's no natural tendency to fly a pattern and a bird is a little too strong, there's no breeze at all, I think they can get lazy and cruise on one wing eventually making it a comfortable habit.
I also made another observation some years ago...
Sometimes a young bird may be afraid of the new kit activity (starting to break) and not only fly on one wing to hopefully minimize the kit breaks but they also try to turn the kit during the breaks!
(I hate these birds the most)
More times than not my birds will fly this figure 8 pattern much to my delight! :-) When they don't, I use the method I mentioned in the earlier post along with playing with the feed to promote a lot of activity for a short fly of about 10-15 minutes.
I kind of rambled on... (sorry)
Hope it helps!
P.S. Eric yes, the less the birds swing on one wing the better chance of more activity from them. So in more cases than not, a figure 8 pattern is desireable with birds breaking on the straight or stall point.
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
Last Edited by big al on Oct 27, 2005 4:11 PM
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Velo99
126 posts
Oct 27, 2005
4:21 PM
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Phantom
I heard of the figure eight here on this site. One of the recent editions of the NBRC bulletin I read an a article onm the figure eight and how it affects the performance of the kit on competetion. I followed some of the suggestions and relocated a few of the problem birds. Most of my kit now is y/b`s . They are flying a nice figure eight most of the time. Like the others I am delighted with it. I feel it is a natural/genetic quality. It can probably be bred for.
YITS
v99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
220 posts
Oct 27, 2005
4:54 PM
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Cliff, my answer is most definitely YES! I hate them with a passion. I flew those kind of birds for years and could never get them to not do it. Could have just been my inexperience with managing them too. At this point, I have way too many birds that don't do it and parents that throw birds that don't do it. To add one to my stock loft, in my opinion, would be going backwards and only bringing about further frustration down the road.
Al, I agree, if you live in an area plagued with winds and constantly changing thermals, then I would suspect it would be very difficult to change the fly pattern of the birds to more of a coursing nature.
Brian.
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LONGS ROLLER LOFT
11 posts
Oct 27, 2005
5:59 PM
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guys I do appreciate all the help. I thank one of the big problems I had in the past was I flew my birds too much. After reading everyone's comments I truly believe my main problem is I flew my birds too much making them wings strong. I am now own a program of flying my birds approximately 1 1/2 hours per week. Now if they sky up and fly for two hours I don't fly them anymore that week. I personally try to get 2 45 minute flies per week. I was wondering how many minutes roughly per week you fly your birds per kit. Especially the guys that get good figure eights from their birds.
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yours in the sport Rick
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
221 posts
Oct 27, 2005
9:37 PM
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I don't go by minutes as that would be just way too frustrating. Sometimes the kit will fly only 30 minutes, sometimes they might fly an hour or longer. It just depends on how they feel that day and what the thermals are like. Normally I fly my kits at least every other day. The young birds get flown every day until they start coming in, then it is every other day for them too.
Brian.
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J_Star
88 posts
Oct 28, 2005
4:34 AM
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I really don't beleive it is due to genatics. Rather, it is all in the feed. When you notice this problem with your birds, try giving them 40% Wheat and 60% Milo for a week or so, that will correct it. Milo tends to slow the wing beet down and cause them to fly like a butter fly and hover in some sence and the figure 8 will show itself. The majority of the time the left or the right wing caused by the the existance of large trees surrounding the area they fly and the direction of the wind. With this type of feed, it will give them a bit of left to about 400-600 feet way above the large tree tops and they lose the urge of circling around. Avoid the flying in somewhat windy days also because it will cause them to circle around with a constant dipping (shoveling) around the turns.
When you have a young kit (less than 6 month), they need to explore the surroundings from the sky, therefore, they will fly all over the sky as a team. That is good to enhance their homeabilty incase they were chased out by a predetor or the wind. Give it a try and give us your feed back... If you master feeding them rollers, you will master flying them...That is my take. Thanks.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Oct 28, 2005 6:27 AM
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