big al
168 posts
Nov 03, 2005
6:42 PM
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Hi guys,
What type of pairings have given you the most success in your own lofts?
Mother to son?
Father to daughter
Mother to grandson
Father to niece
etc... etc... etc...----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
228 posts
Nov 03, 2005
8:05 PM
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Cousin to cousin
Father to granddaughter
Mother to grandson
Not only do these seem to be the best pairings in my rollers, but my best show birds always seem to come from these three types of pairings.
Brian.
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nicksiders
273 posts
Nov 03, 2005
8:43 PM
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I think Brian is right on............never, never brother to sister. They are just too close genetically.
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big al
171 posts
Nov 03, 2005
8:55 PM
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Brian,
The closest I've done were cousins. Worked very well.----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Bill C
12 posts
Nov 03, 2005
9:10 PM
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I like half brother to half sister and would really like to try the Father to grand daughter when I get that far down the road.
I have also done some hybrid vigor pairs and they produce good rollers sometimes but the offspring down the road have not done as well as the parrents. But one time I use the off spring to foster since they did not roll much in the air and the hen just wanted to lay eggs. Well I let them raise a round in the fall and one of the young was the best velocity roller I have raised yet. So I got to thinking that if you are not line breeding or inbreeding and you use unrelaed stock like two hybreds that the roll might skip a generation. What I mean is that they produce good rollers but the offspring don't, but the offspring that dont roll if bred brings the roll back again. At least it happened this time. I dont even have the parrents anymore becasue they were culls for fosters ( having not rolled hardly at all for two years or more ) so I didn't want to feed them through the winter and I ate them. Now I wish I had them back to get a hen for the cock. I am breeding him this year and hope he will reproduce himself with several hens.
Off couse all the guys (most) who inbreed seem to do the best though. I had a friend who said hybred vigor works great for one generation and then they all resist the roll. But I may be onto something with the hybrid vigor skipping a genration. It would be awful if it skips a generation each time though? I am experimenting with this cock and will see what comes of it in the next few years and see if I can prove this or not. Bill
Last Edited by Bill C on Nov 03, 2005 9:16 PM
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big al
176 posts
Nov 04, 2005
6:47 PM
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Hey Brian, Bill, Nick
When you're breeding are you attempting to produce better than the parents, Just as good or somewhere in between.
I'm always trying to produce better but I noticed that different guys have different takes on that?
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
229 posts
Nov 04, 2005
7:20 PM
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Al, I think it is pretty much a given that most guys would be breeding for equal to or better than the parents. This is why I strongly pursue breeding from different birds in many pairings to finding out where the connections might be and what birds are truly contributors to good performance and which ones are just a flash in the pan. I have found that very few truly awesome performers ever produce many like themselves. But often they produce good ones that are acceptable and those offspring end up producing better than their parent.
Keep in mind I am not the type of person with the sole goal of someday breeding the most phenomenal roller this world has ever seen. If a bird performs well and makes me proud, then that is all I ask for. Gimme 20 of those in a kit together on comp day and again, that is all I can ask for, and all I desire.
Generally when I pair up my birds, many of them I have a good feeling of what they are capable of producing from what they have produced before. This year will be one of the first years where numerous pairings will be re-mated because I really liked the offspring they produced this past season. I pair them that way because they have shown they can produce some nice rollers. Others are more of a gut feeling, an intuition based on many things, primarily the bird's character and performance, along with the trail in which it came to be. In some groups of birds the connections will become obvious after a few years.
Breeding these rollers is, in general, a crap shoot. Some people like to think they have it all figured out. But if they did, we would see more superstar rollers in greater numbers than we do today.
I believe for a person to be satisfied with the production of good rollers, that person must have many different breeding tools available in the loft. Most of these tools will be what each individual bird brings to the table and then balancing them out with the comparable mate. Often times the way the tools are used might actually be more productive in a line-bred mating, or even an inbred mating. Or it might be more of a mating that isn't directly related. It just depends on what the fancier knows or feels about his pairings.
Brian.
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nicksiders
276 posts
Nov 04, 2005
8:07 PM
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Trying to breed at least as good if not better.
I have found with my family that if breed my best to the best the off spring are usually not as good as the parents, but the second generation tend to be as good and sometimes better.
Because I went to a state university I do not understand this result, but I am sure there are people on this site that know.....LOL
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
551 posts
Nov 05, 2005
3:36 AM
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I am a big beliver in mating Best to Best that I pick from the air.I don,t match up a deep roller with one that is a short roller.I keep Like to Like. I also breed for Color within these boundrys.I breed a lot with the Pied factor.I still believe that it has something to do with the roll.I am to dumb to prove it but I feel it does and I use it in 80% of my matings.Geneticly it shouldn,t and maybe the percentages of rollers raised from this type breeding is why I get better rollers from these pairings.LOL.Just a personal thing.
I like what Joe Houghton said: "Breed a lot & Cull Hard" or something like that.
I have bred Father to Daughter,Mother to Son & I just never liked what they produced.My family is bred pretty tight anyway and I wind up with a lot of Father to Granddaughter,Great Grandaughters etc type pairings but I don,t intentially pair them this way.Only when a roller is doing good do I start checking the backgtound of it.
I am like Brian. All I want is a good roller in the air.Whatever it takes for me to get it.Even if I have to cross Roller families to get it.LOL.The best roller I ever raised is from a Cross and came from my Foster Rollers. David
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motherlodelofts
445 posts
Nov 05, 2005
8:13 AM
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Al, I can have luck with any of the above pairings , it just depends on the birds used.
Your question on "are you trying to breed better than the parents or just as good" is a super good question.
I am allways shooting to breed "as" good as the parents.
I rarely really think about breeding better but some of my pairings I think about "what if I get the best out of both" but I would be happy with "as" good .
If I do get one that is better it is the rare "great" bird that pops up here and there.
I do not stock inferior birds , nor do I focus on anything but performance , also just because it was great in the air doesn't mean it make's it to stock , that only gets it to first base.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Nov 05, 2005 8:45 AM
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Alohazona
81 posts
Nov 05, 2005
9:03 AM
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David,
0nce again,I find that we think alot alike,LOL.I also agree with Scott,I have had sucess with any of the combinations,it all depends on the bird,whatever the relation close,distant,somewhere in the middle,or not even related[hybrid].When I go close it is interesting to see,what comes out recessively in both performance and also colors,although the performance is my only concern,also what is prepotent or which birds are consistantly reproducing themselves,no matter which mate I give them.Aloha,Todd
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highroller
80 posts
Nov 05, 2005
3:49 PM
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This year I did some father/daughter and some mother/son matings as well as some more distantly related pairs. My father/daughter and mother/son pairs produced very "typey" birds that included a few bouncers. The performance was better from my distanly related pairs. I'm going to mix them up a little more next season.
Dan
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Velo99
139 posts
Nov 05, 2005
4:21 PM
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This year will be the pivotal year for me. I have a "proven pair" and I have 4 other pairs that have given me some decent birds.I bred a hen and cock nestmates to different mates. These two pairings turned out the best chicks. This year I am going to poly/foster 4 rounds from the two hens I should have 26 kitbirds out of fifty that are related by the hens. After that it should be an easy thing to keep the family tight. They will all be 1/4 related at the very least. If they fly out nicely I will be on the way to having a tight family. Bring in an outcross for vigor occasionally.
If I keep the foundation cock out of the mix after the first two seasons,bring him back in on a poly in five would that not give me a shot of same gene vigor?
yits
v99
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big al
180 posts
Nov 05, 2005
4:27 PM
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Hi guys,
I like to breed with the goal of getting better than the parents. I'm seeing some success with that this year because my breeding program was much more selective. I have about 8 pair down and most of them are related somehow but distant. I've always been a little afraid of father to daughter, brother to sister, mother to son matings so I've never done them. It works great for some folks.----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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quickspin
107 posts
Nov 14, 2007
11:54 PM
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Does any one have more.
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2008 11:16 AM
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