Double D
58 posts
Nov 03, 2005
8:22 PM
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A little sooner than I was planning for but an opportunity came along that I didn't dare pass up. I was able to purchase a late-round,young bird kit of 20 birds from Ivan Hanchett who has been an absolute gentleman and huge help and support through the entire process. Ivan is a true ambassador of the sport much like others of you here who have also been huge helps and supports in tolerating my many questions, emails, and phone calls, such as Paul, Scott, Ken, and others.
The birds arrived today and I'm very excited about their potential and look forward to being able to compete in the major flys soon. I don't know if I'll be ready for the World Cup but hope to have a kit ready for the Fall Fly next year.
In any event, I'm just really excited to be getting started and especially with such a strong family of birds from a fancier of Ivan's personality, reputation, and caliber. Hopefully this is just the beginning of many rewarding years in this great sport.
Especially now that I finally have birds, It's good to know I can continue to rely on all of you to get answers to questions and overcome the rookie mistakes that I'll no doubt make.
Darin
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nicksiders
274 posts
Nov 03, 2005
8:45 PM
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Welcome.............have a good time and learn to argue.
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fhtfire
238 posts
Nov 04, 2005
8:17 AM
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Congrats Double D!
I hope you get some good spinners out of the bunch. The offer is always open to you if you need more birds next year. It has been a joy talking with you!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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maxspin
8 posts
Nov 04, 2005
9:20 AM
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Darin,
You are getting a good family to start with.
Have fun with them
Keith
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Shaun
186 posts
Nov 04, 2005
11:42 AM
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What's your strategy with the youngsters, Darin? Are you going to settle them, then fly them out, or lock them down to breed from?
Shaun
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Double D
59 posts
Nov 04, 2005
12:50 PM
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Shaun,
Even though it will slow down the process, I don't want to take a chance on losing any of them so I'll be locking them down, breeding from them, and flying out the young and building my breeding and flying program from there.
Darin
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Double D
60 posts
Nov 04, 2005
1:33 PM
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Keith, are you familiar with Ivan's family of birds? What can you share about them. I've been pretty much in constant communication with Ivan the last few weeks but we haven't had a good chance to talk about the origins of his family yet although we'll be visiting by phone this weekend and I plan to ask him then. Thanks in advance!
Darin
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Shaun
187 posts
Nov 04, 2005
1:34 PM
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In which case, Darin, as I'm 6 months ahead of you in a similar program, you might wish to hear about my cock-ups, as I progress, to perhaps save you making the same ones. However, mistakes aside, the biggest surprise for me has been the imbalance between cocks and hens. Clearly, when you obtain a kit of babes, to lock down and breed from, no-one knows how they'll turn out - you have to wait and see for the cocks to strut their stuff. Well, my cocks have been showing themselves since they were 4/5 months old and I've since had no new ones. So, with my breeding program ready to begin, I have a mere 5 cocks out of 20 birds. Perhaps a few more will show themselves as time goes on but, the rest really do behave like hens - bending over for any cock! The idea was to pair them all up on the assumption there'd be a rough 50/50 mix of cocks and hens. No chance.
Shaun
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big al
174 posts
Nov 04, 2005
2:45 PM
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Double D!!
Have fun with this man!!
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See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
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Double D
61 posts
Nov 04, 2005
11:35 PM
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Shaun,
Ivan shipped the birds to me already divided based on his best guess of the sex, (some birds are 3 months old and most are 4 months old), and based on the sex that he chose, I have 10 of each. I also have some cocks starting to really show themselves already.
Anything you have to share would be greatly appreciated. If I remember correctly, when you talk about being in a similar situation I assume you're referring to your George Mason birds?
Darin
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Shaun
188 posts
Nov 05, 2005
12:05 AM
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Yes, Darin, the Masons are the main event. I would have preferred them being a few months old, but they were only about 6 weeks old when I got them. So, I've had time to observe a lot and learn a bit along the way. For example, I'm ultimately going to follow George's advice as to the best pairings, once I'm sure which is which. Meanwhile, however, a few birds got it together and I would have been quite happy to raise a few from these and, if necessary, split them up later to form the 'proper' pairings which George suggests. However, what I've found that at around the 4-5 months mark, they certainly behave like cocks and hens and seem to pair up. Then a few days later, some have gone their separate ways and paired up with other birds. So, far I've only managed to elicit two pairs of eggs from two firm pairs of birds. I was concerned at how small the eggs were and still wonder if 'proper' pigeons will be raised from them. However, the first pair of eggs were sat on for about 3 weeks. They didn't hatch, so I tossed the eggs and split that pair up. At the moment, I have one other Mason pair sitting eggs, with over a week to go before they might hatch. Now that the weather is turning cold, I'm still in two minds whether to go for it in earnest through the winter, or hang on till spring; there are pros and cons with both options.
Anyhow, as you can see it's not quite as straightforward as I imagined - the birds happy to get it on at quite an early age, but I've still nothing to show for it.
Shaun
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upcd
58 posts
Nov 05, 2005
2:23 AM
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Congratulations on your new birds. I am so excited for you. I wish you the best of luck breeding. Remember give them 7 days to rest. Then start your shots and worming. Don't forget the 4 in 1 med. for the other diseases pigeons can get from be stressed. Then in spring you can start your breeding. -Debbie
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Double D
63 posts
Nov 05, 2005
7:15 AM
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Thanks Debbie! Thanks also for the medical advice. That's the one area I'm probably the weakest in.
Shaun,
My understanding is that rollers are not mature enough to successfully mate until about 7 to 8 months of age or so. So while they might go through the motions before that and maybe even lay some eggs, I'm not sure the cocks can fertilize the eggs prior to that age anyway can they? I'm not in a huge hurry to breed just yet anyway as I still need to build my loft and kit boxes. I have the birds inside my shed. I bought two of those 8-compartment breeding cages from Foys to keep them in which is where the breeding pairs will remain anyway. But I don't have any place for young birds yet so next spring will work well for me and give me time to get the loft and kit boxes done.
Darin
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Shaun
189 posts
Nov 05, 2005
7:37 AM
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Darin, I think your age observation might well be right. I daresay the odd pair might be able to successfully produce earlier, but I haven't seen it yet and mine are now 6 months old. As I mentioned, I've a pair sitting right now, but the eggs might again turn out to be infertile - they're certainly much smaller eggs than I've seen from my older birds; I'll let you know if anything is successfully hatched and reared.
Shaun
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maxspin
9 posts
Nov 05, 2005
9:57 AM
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Darin,
Ivan's, birds are based on birds he got from Bruce Cooper. This is the same family that he scored 1100 in last years fall fly regional, and 605 in this years regional. I did not see last years, but I was standing under them this year. They have great velocity and depth.
Keith
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viper
9 posts
Nov 06, 2005
7:45 AM
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A yaer ago I did the same got a kit of late hatchs from a tight bred family.Started to settle them then lost two so I locked them down mated them in the spring.I used fosters
three rounds then switch the matings.This way I found three pair with a better precentage.
Blake
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highroller
81 posts
Nov 06, 2005
8:24 AM
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Shaun,
I have also noticed that the first eggs a very young hen lays are quite small. I have had small ones like that hatch though. Not hatching may not be infertility of a young cock, but that they just did not get it together right the first time around. You can "candle" the eggs about a week after they are laid to see if they are fertile and dispose of them if they are not. Then you don't need to wait the three weeks to find out they are not going to hatch and you can get the pair laying again sooner.
Dan
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Shaun
190 posts
Nov 06, 2005
9:19 AM
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Thanks, Dan; glad to hear small eggs don't necessarily mean no youngsters. I did hold mine up to the light but it was some way down the line; I should have done it earlier, as it was evident that the yolk was still liquid.
Blake, I'm sure Darin would also be interested in your switching of pairs in order to try alternatives. Please elaborate.
Shaun
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Double D
64 posts
Nov 06, 2005
1:59 PM
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Yes Blake, please elaborate. My approach was going to entail getting at least two rounds, if not three, from each pair and then rate the young birds. I don't feel one round is enough to judge a pair by so I didn't plan on switching out mates that quickly. I figure if I have at least 4 young from a pair, then I can assign each bird as 25% of the whole and if one out of four is really good then I know it might not be the best pairing, if two to three of four are good birds however, then I know I may be on to something.
So, it would be helpful to know exactly how you're going about it. Thanks!
Darin
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nicksiders
279 posts
Nov 06, 2005
5:44 PM
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Why do seemingly automatically give new birds shots and de-worm them? Are you assuming they are sick and have worms?
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
237 posts
Nov 06, 2005
5:52 PM
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Nick, it is always better to error on the side of caution when bringing in new birds. I always run any new bird I get on a 10 day stretch with 4n1, just to be sure. Some birds just don't handle stress that well and you would be shocked at the number of lofts where they experience bacterial problems year round. You want their birds, not their problems..lol.
Brian.
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viper
11 posts
Nov 06, 2005
7:22 PM
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Darin what I do is mate up the birds and foster the eggs to the pumpers when I get two or three sets of eggs from a pair I take the hen away from the cock for five or sixs days then put her on the next cock and so on with all the pairs just rotate the hens on different cocks.I use single pens for this to keep the hens going back to the same cocks.
Blake
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Ballrollers
144 posts
Nov 07, 2005
7:31 AM
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Darin, I won a kit of Ivan's birds in the NBRC raffle this year. He sent me a dozen birds about six weeks ago. I don't like to breed from birds that I have not seen perform so I decided to fly them out. They are settled and flying; just starting to kit a little. We're bound to have related birds so it will be interesting to stay in touch as these birds start developing. Any idea how long they will take to come into the roll? YITS Cliff
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Double D
65 posts
Nov 07, 2005
1:01 PM
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None Cliff, sorry. I have a ton of questions for Ivan but he's been extremely busy with some other things he has going so I'm trying to give him some breathing room. What were the ages of the birds that you received and how easily did they settle? Did you get the pedigrees on them? Thanks!
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on Nov 07, 2005 1:03 PM
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Ballrollers
146 posts
Nov 07, 2005
2:58 PM
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Darin, Ivan said these are July/August hatches. I put a few of my own late hatches in with them and they settled without incident. The tuff part now is flying them out with the preds. No pedigrees yet. Like you said, he's been pretty busy with running for office, Fall Fly, etc. I asked him a couple times when they would come into the roll and he answered all my questions but that one! I figured I'd contact him after a few begin to take shape and get the pedigree info on those particular birds that I will use. YITS Cliff
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