|
The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Breeding Compartments
Breeding Compartments
Page:
1
Newflyer
29 posts
Nov 06, 2005
9:59 AM
|
Can anyone tell me if rollers have to be breed and kept in individual breeding compartments and confined in them all the time, like I see alot of. Or can I use the style that are used for homers? Like the widowhood system. The open type where once they are breed have an open type loft to fly and get out of the nestbox for food and water. (Does this sound clear)
Paul
Last Edited by Newflyer on Nov 06, 2005 10:00 AM
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
236 posts
Nov 06, 2005
10:59 AM
|
Pigeons will breed in an cardboard box if you let them. I use both individuals and open loft. I pair them in individuals for a week, then put some of the pairs into open lofts. Some people breed in individual compartments for the knowledge of knowing exactly what birds produced what. You don't have the guarantee in an open loft. It just a matter of how anal retentive you are about the legitimacy of the offspring.
Brian.
|
Ally Mac
70 posts
Nov 06, 2005
11:10 AM
|
Brian.
I have just put down 6 pairs I have on loan from Dave Mosely.
I have also 6 pairs feeders put down at the same time. Do you think an open loft gets the birds going quicker? I have them all in boxes at present. I realise I would want to keep the feeders separete from the good birds.
Cheers.
Al.
|
fhtfire
241 posts
Nov 06, 2005
12:12 PM
|
My nest boxes are made so that I can pull the diveder and then lock them in until they lay the first egg then I let them out to fly in an open loft. Some pairs that I have are open all the time. For example...I know my pairs and know what the offspring look like.....My Blue Bar self and Black self produce nothing but Blue Bars and Blacks..out of about 20 rounds or so....so If one comes out a grizzle or something...then the red flag goes up and I would just put Father unknown on the loft report...My other pair is an Andalusian self...so everything that he spits out is Andy....just some examples. Toward the end of a season I get a little lazy...But if I am breeding a round for the NBRC auction or World cup....they are locked up until they lay. That is it
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Shaun
191 posts
Nov 06, 2005
12:25 PM
|
Hi, All. I'm pleased you've got Dave's birds for the winter. I chatted to him about that, just before I took delivery of four of his late-bred squeakers. They're flying every day and I'm told not to expect them to come into the roll as quickly as my Mason birds. I'll be interested as to how you get on with yours.
Anyhow, the answer to your question is surely dependent upon how analytical you're going to be as to the offspring. You will probably be confident of Dave's birds to the extent that even if you can't be absolutely sure of parentage, the offspring will all be from the same line (assuming Mr Cock from the fosters doesn't inadvertenly hump Mrs Hen for the Moseleys - or vice versa). However, if you wish to put each and every cock and hen under careful scrutiny, so that when you fly out the youngsters, you're certain as to parentage, then you need to be sure of the matings. Many, then, would lock 'em up until the first round is laid, then perhaps revert to a more open loft. Locking them into individual pens means much more maintenance - individually changing food and water each day. In your case, during a typical Scottish winter, you might find this a pain in the arse.
As Brian says, it depends on how anal you're going to be. George, for example, has an open loft system. He accepts that there could be a 10-15% 'error' rate as to parentage, but that wouldn't bother him, as all the stock birds are of high quality. It's not uncommon for a determined cock to chase an intruding hen out of his own next box, only to immediately fly down onto the floor to mate with her. Equally, a determined cock will sometimes take advantage of a squatting hen to force its way over the 'proper' cock.
So, it seems to be a question as to the surety of parentage versus the hassle factor.
But, Al, I would have thought that Dave's pairs are so well established that illicit hanky panky is unlikely in an open loft? Mind you, I've heard that some of the birds from Leicester are slappers!
Shaun
|
Ally Mac
71 posts
Nov 06, 2005
12:54 PM
|
Hi Shaun.
I wouldnt like to comment on the 2 legged birds from down south, we have our own share of bikes up here (I seem to remember).
I had a great few hours with Dave, I got to watch a couple of his kits, got a heap of advice and lots of tea to help me on my way. I came away with 6 pairs till Januuary, another cock to keep and he is also going to sort me out with another couple of pairs to keep, I also got some very stern warnings about the birds. I am kind of on tender hooks with them. What a great help forwards. I have never driven 1000 miles before in the one day but with rollers flying around in my head it didn't seem like a chore.
I dont mind looking after the boxes individualy, my question was really about keeping them laying as fast as possible. Last year my own birds were also in ttheir own boxes and seemed to slow down their laying after a while. I obviously want to get the 12 boxes full asap and get possibly 4 rounds from the good birds.
Cheers.
Al.
|
Shaun
192 posts
Nov 06, 2005
1:20 PM
|
Sorry, Al, I mixed up Paul's original post which came before yours. I see what you mean about what's the best way to get them going. That sounds like a great experience you had seeing Dave. I spent a couple of hours on the phone to him - he has very fixed, but passionate opinions; not a man to mince words!
I recall he did have a 'breeding through winter' tip, which he might have mentioned to you. It was about extending the available light, so as not to shut them down mentally out of shagging mode. He said that he uses a rechargeable torch, which can last an hour or two. He switches it on as the light is starting to fade which, as you know, in the depths of winter, can be anything from 3pm. So, with such a torch, the light doesn't shut off abruptly, but peters out gradually as the battery fades.
Shaun
|
Ally Mac
72 posts
Nov 06, 2005
1:31 PM
|
Shaun. your spot on.
Dave is my kind of guy, calls a spade a f*****g spade, absolutely no bull shit. He keeps everything so simple too, from feeding, to flying. (at least he kept it simple for me).
I already have lights on a timer and the birds all reckon its spring time, just a waiting game now, they all paired up without any trouble.
Fingers crossed.
Are you going with the winter breeding? I am sure you have heard we are supposed to be getting the coldest winter for decades, funny how they can tell that but cant tell us what its going to do next week!! Hopefuly they've got it wrong.
Al.
|
Shaun
193 posts
Nov 06, 2005
2:11 PM
|
Yeah, Al, I've heard the same thing about the severity of the oncoming winter. I see you have no option - you've gotta go for it and get as many youngsters out of Dave's pairs as you can, in the time available to you. As you know, I read here a lot of winter breeding advice about this, and although there was mention of losing some birds due to the cold, the thing which stood out for me was the mention of the cocks not getting horny enough. Now, that rings a bell. When I first got my birds back in April, it could still be cold enough in the morning for there to be a film of ice over the water. Yes, it would warm up enough during the day, but the overall effect was to subdue some of the cocks. Only the randiest, most determined would be at it - they've transpired to be a bloody nuisance, actually, as there's always some stupid hen squatting for one of these persistent cocks. It has driven me made at times, in my attempts to be sure of parenthood: "Get the hell off her you horny git - and why are you squatting for him, you dirty cow; you're supposed to be mated with him over there." - type of thing.
I think what I'm going to do is let nature take its course with the Masons over the winter. If some pairs want to have a crack at it, I'll let them get on with it and see what success I have. Then, I think, come spring, I'll talk to George and pair up more according to what he thinks is best. I can't do that at the minute, as too few cocks have shown themselves. Now that winter is almost upon us, it could be slow progress.
What both you and I might have a problem with is this bird flu thing; before I joined the AERC, I belonged to the NPA - the national pigeon club, mainly for fancy pigeons. Anyhow, the NPA as of now, is saying that to avoid the Government ordering the culling of our birds, we should keep them locked up. And, we're a country which, so far, doesn't have a bird flu problem. Meanwhile, all pigeon shows in the UK have been cancelled.
It could be a difficult year ahead.
Shaun
|
Newflyer
30 posts
Nov 06, 2005
4:49 PM
|
Thanks again Brian and Paul. I guess that I was on the same line of thought as you both. But wasn't too sure all the way though. I do like the lock down for a week and then the open loft system. I always have open EARS when I see both your names on a post. I have learned very much from both of YOU Guys in the time that I have been in rollers. I'll be keeping my EYES & EARS open in the future for more valuable information . Keep up the GREAT words of wisdom. A future competitor in the making..
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
238 posts
Nov 06, 2005
5:55 PM
|
Good luck Paul. One thing to mention is that the percentages of a "jump" mating occuring in an open loft are the highest after mating up the pairs. If you feel uneasy about the prospects, toss the first round of eggs and you should be fine from then on. Tests have shown that after the first round, the chances of a "jump" mating decrease tremendously.
Brian.
|
big al
188 posts
Nov 06, 2005
9:14 PM
|
Hey Paul,
You know that anal retentive guy Brian was talking about! LOL! yep that's me! Sometimes I laugh at myself!
LOL!!! :-) :-)
I breed in seperate compartments because I have a small operation. I can' afford to make errors during the breeding season with so few breeders, so I go that route. I also keep very detailed records as well so an open loft wouldn't work for me. Plus my yard's too small. LOL!!
----------
See you in the roll!
Big Al
"High Plains Spinner Loft"
|
J_Star
103 posts
Nov 07, 2005
5:30 AM
|
If you have a well inbreed family, open loft breeding is not a big problem. That is because the gene pool is there in the family. The problem with an open loft is when you want to inbreed your family of birds such as father to daughter, mother to son, grandfather to granddaugther and so on. It would be hard to break up the pairing to add the new mate. They usually go back to each other.
You still can use individual compartments for each pair to lock them up. After the second egg is layed then you let them out to have a free flight in the loft until the babies are four days old, then you lock them up and the process goes through the second round and so on. This is the way I do it…
Jay
|
Velo99
140 posts
Nov 07, 2005
5:13 PM
|
Another question along the same lines.
If one has a tight bred family,would the power of natural selection take over if they were allowed to breed in an open loft? Would they pair back up if the pairs were seperated over the winter? Would the cocks pursue a bigger better hen?
I was wondering because of the top perch birds in the kitbox are usually the strongest birds, Pecking order is at work there. Would it not in an open loft?
Just thought I would ask.
YITS
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Nov 07, 2005 5:15 PM
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
239 posts
Nov 07, 2005
8:04 PM
|
Cock birds are like drunk sailors, they are happy with the first hole they fall into..lol.
Once the first couple of bumpin' fuzzies is over, they are mated for life, or until we serve them with divorce papers, then they usual revert to default mode while the next one they jump or squat for, becomes their new, everlasting love.
I don't believe captive pigeons possess the natural instinct to select their mates based on the idea the prospect might be above standard. If a cock is single he'll top the first hen to come along and drop her drawers, and suddenly they are bonded like glue.
I have broken up pairs mid season and remated them up with different mates that were originally paired to other birds in the same loft with little difficulty. If there is a problem, usually it is the hen trying to get her old box back. I can only recall one or two pairings where they broke off and went back to their old mate. Generally that was my fault for not leaving them together long enough after breaking them up from their previous partner.
I might add that primarily cocks seem to have this unique ability to distinguish what color they are as well as what color their parents were. Some of you might have noticed that in your stock cock pens, the cocks that find themselves interested in a little prison sex action, tend to favor those that look like they do or look like one of their parents. Hens can do this too, but it seems the cock birds do it more often, to the point the pattern of decision making it boldly obvious.
Pigeons seem to by and large be able to recognize the likeness to themselves. In one of my stock cock lofts I keep mainly my stock Wests along with a few of my best stock roller and Helmet cocks. The wests chases the wests, the rollers chase after the rollers and the Helmets are only interested in the other Helmets.
Brian.
|
upcd
61 posts
Nov 07, 2005
11:44 PM
|
I breed open loft. Unless I need a special mating then they go into mating cages.
|
Velo99
141 posts
Nov 08, 2005
5:00 AM
|
Since it has been determined that the cocks will mount more hens than a lesbian taxidermist, how many hens could/will one cock service in an open loft setting.
yits
v99
|
upcd
63 posts
Nov 08, 2005
7:18 AM
|
In my birds, if left to themselves, I would be in trouble. I would end up with fan west, fan roller and west roller. They are just to loving, so i need to keep an eye out. or I'll have a loft of Crosses.
|
Post a Message
|
|
|