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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Competitors - Noncompetitors
Competitors - Noncompetitors
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nicksiders
280 posts
Nov 07, 2005
11:07 AM
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There seems to be an attitude amoungst many of those who compete that if you don't compete what you say or do has no credence; no value. This is sad because those who do compete are just a small part of this hobby and has nothing to do with who may have the better knowledge or even the better birds in this hobby(oh, yes I have watched the the birds of non-competitors and competitors).
There is room for all of us in this hobby. There is even room for the competitors..............LOL. So, don't be so loud!
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2007 2:45 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
74 posts
Nov 07, 2005
12:46 PM
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Hi Nick,
You are 100% correct there is room for all in the roller hobby. I think what many look at is the passion one finds in the different facets of this breed. The competition guys want only the best in performance. Training and selecting for top performance, is a must!! Its hard to lay down that passion for top performance, and see the beauty in the old brown winger cock that just flips but has found favor in the back yard keepers eyes. Old Brown winger does have value to his owner but in the eyes of a man trying to fly with and against the best roller men in the world, Old Brown winger is a waste of good feed. LOL
Same thing with those that breed for color, factors and patterns Nick. The men who like the colors are passionate about them. Passionate enough to cross rollers on other breeds and except birds that don't perform to standard into the line to try to make them roll like the best. I know there passion, as my own passion often bumps heads with there passion.
Nick, Back yard breeders can come under a lot of headings. I mean I have been in back yard lofts that have fantails, swallows, English trumpeters and all breeds in the same loft..
I have been in back yards, where men have great stock, but don't have the time or want to put in the hard work and effort it takes to fly, select and point a top kit of rollers for comp day. They just like to fly a kit of birds and watch a good roll now and then.. All that work for a certain day and 20 minutes that can go up in smoke. Why bother?
Nick, the point is don't let the passion and points of view expressed on these list, lead you to believe anyone thinks its their way or the highway. Most of us just talk on these list from our personal passionate point of view.
Nick, I think you will find in time, that birds of a feather flock together. Its really as simple as this Nick, find the flock you belong in and join up. Enjoy your birds. Its really no different than anything else in life.. Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Nov 07, 2005 12:48 PM
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Shaun
194 posts
Nov 07, 2005
1:21 PM
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Nick, Kenny, I do believe there's something inbetween. I've discussed this with Scott because he feels that a non-competition flyer won't have the same obsession. I had to laugh at Scott's honesty as to how the 'pull' can sometimes be a bit too much. But, there are those (OK me!) who can be just as maniacally obsessive, but without the need to compete with others; it's really about meeting one's own personal objectives and goals. Surely, there are many who relentlessly persevere, simply to prove to themselves that they can do it.
Shaun
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Mongrel Lofts
75 posts
Nov 07, 2005
1:46 PM
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Well said Shaun. I would think there are many obsessions in the hobby that have nothing to do with competing. Some I'm sure I have never even heard of. Shaun but if one obsesses over his birds having long toe nails. How long will it be, before he begins to compare how long the toe nails are compared to the birds in other lofts? Not long I would bet, and I would win. So either we compete in the open for the roller world to judge. Or we judge from our safe closet and just do the competing in our own minds. Don't you think? This would be much like the back yard flyers I have met. They will to the last man, say I fly just as good of birds as old so & so. THey don't fly to prove that, but in their head, they have compared and competed. They have acomplished just as good a bird as old so & so in their own minds they have competed. Just on their own little personal level.. No matter how you look at it, its all competition on some level!! See what I mean about not laying down that passion?? LOL Mongrel lofts
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highroller
82 posts
Nov 07, 2005
2:09 PM
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Wow, another thinly veiled stab at the so called color breeder. While there may some that enjoy color who would mix breeds for color and accept inferior performance for the sake of color, there are many, many more who would never do that. To label everyone who will not stand up and publicly deny liking color in the birds as "those who will mix breeds and accept inferior performance" is being a bit predjudiced.
There are several facets to this hobby/sport and things can be learned in all these areas. To limit ourselves to one area or to suggest that someone go find the flock where they fit in sounds like someone is trying to turn a particular site into a private club and that would be a hinderance to learning.
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Shaun
195 posts
Nov 07, 2005
2:18 PM
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I know you're right, Kenny. Part of Graham Dexter's interviews with other top flyers in Winners with Spinners, was whether or not competition had advanced or spoiled the sport. Whilst there were negative mutterings here and there, the general consensus was that competition had brought the sport on tremendously; the standard was there for everyone to see and to try and live up to. I've since discussed this with Graham and he convinced me that the positives of competition far outweigh the negatives.
I'm one of those with no-one anywhere near me who keeps rollers. My young family and work commitments mean I can't drop everything to travel a couple of hundred miles to see a kit of rollers perform. Hence, personal objectives have to be my main thing for the time being.
But, I will still be trying to meet those personal objectives in accordance with the comp rules, because I never know whether at some point I might be competing alongside others. So, I feel that there's no point in my developing a line - thus putting in lots of time, money and effort - unless the end results could stand up and be counted, along with the rest of them. So, as a backyard flyer, I'm just as pre-occupied with kitting, velocity, quality, outbirds, etc, as someone who, from the off, is aiming for comp level.
Going back to what Nick said, is the typical backyard flyer aiming to maintain the standard, or doesn't it matter where comp flying isn't an issue? I can certainly see that for some, the pleasure of rollers could actually increase if all those rules didn't have to be adhered to.
Shaun
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fhtfire
242 posts
Nov 07, 2005
9:08 PM
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I guess I will express my opinion. Again, it is only my opinion. Do I think that people on this forum think that backyard fliers are lower in the food chain then a comp flier. Absolutely not! I just feel that the competition flier pushes a little harder to get the best rollers as possible. It is not that the comp fancier is better then a backyard flier. It is just the word "competition". No matter what you do..competition brings out the best in everyone. From athletics to hobbies to everyday life. If there is competition it is the human instinct to push a little harder to be the best. Take a football player for example. If you know that you have to work to earn your spot on the starting line up...you will try harder and harder to be #1. IF you are competing for a job...you will take more classes to pad your resume to be the best. I used to race ATV'S...to try and be the best...I would ride longer and harder then a weekend ATV rider. I would spend more money to make my ATV faster then the average rider. Were there weekend riders that were as good...I am sure that there were...But not many. IF you are a runner training for a competition..you will push your body to the limits..to "WIN"..but if you just like to run for your own enjoyment...then your standards are lower..that is human nature. Now...pigeons...if you are a comp flier..you don't want a low score...you will cull a little harder and strive to get that perfect kit so that you rise to the top. You will not waste a perch for a nice looking ok roller if you think that the perch could be used for a future champion....If you do not have goals..you do not strive to reach those goal. I do not think that it is even a debate. Are there backyard fliers that have good birds..YOU BET! I would like to ask David how he feels...he scored a pretty good score in his first fly...I bet his gears are turning a little more to try and get a better score then his last one...because...of ..COMPETITION...he will most likely look at his kit a little different...trying to find better and better birds....With competition brings respect...not because your birds are better...but because you are in the game. I think that it all just human nature.....that makes you kick it up a notch if you have to compete. I do not think that one fancier is better then another..I just think being in competition lets it all hang out. If the Scotts or Brians decided to hang it up and not compete anymore...would there birds performance suffer...I would say yes...why...because they no longer have the drive to be the best. I have competed in many sports over the years...and competition makes you strive for excellence. I used to body build...Because I was in competition...man I worked out harder then I could ever imagine. Well, I no longer compete...do I lift as hard...Hell, no...why....I have nothing to prove.....that says it all! Nothing to prove. I hope I made some sense. But do I think one fancier is better then the another...NO! Overall..do I think that there the fanciers that compete overall have better birds per capita...yes..because of goals...well...and pride! Hope I made sense..
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
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upcd
60 posts
Nov 07, 2005
11:37 PM
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As a mother of 3 and devoted wife. Competing and meeting monthy is out of the question. When I was single and had time and money to spare. I went to every meeting and I was right there competing. I still have my passion. However I must compete near home. Pigeons are my passion.
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nicksiders
283 posts
Nov 08, 2005
9:28 AM
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Debbie - tell that husband to watch the kids and go compete..............LOL
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Double D
66 posts
Nov 08, 2005
1:31 PM
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Paul,
Great comments, as always the voice of reason and common sense. Competition is one of the main reasons I'm getting back into rollers. For me, it's the drive to excel, to achieve, to strive to be the best. Why? It's about the pride. For me, it has nothing to do with the fact that if I won, my birds would be worth alot more. Sure, it's gaining the respect from others, but for me, more important still is the respect for myself and what I was able to accomplish. I've never been one who needed to be stroked by others. Success is what strokes me, regardless of whether others recognize it or not. But, it must be realistic success. In other words, you search for the benchmark and you meet, or better yet, exceed it. That benchmark is different for every backyard flyer in the world. For comp flyers however, that benchmark is set by others whether you like it or not. Not worse, not better, just different.
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on Nov 08, 2005 1:32 PM
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Ballrollers
157 posts
Nov 08, 2005
7:14 PM
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I agree with Darin and all the posts about the value of competition....to each of us as individuals and loft managers...to the organization of the fancy....and to the standard of the breed. I have learned more about these birds in these past two years of being in the hobby with a committment to compete, than I learned in the 13 years I raised rollers as (strictly) a backyard flyer in the 60's and 70s with no interst in competition. I do, however, resent the attitude of some individuals in the hobby that make sweeping negative generalizations about the opinions of the average backyard flyer, and question the validity of his perspective. I agree with you Nick, believing that it is a fallacy and disrespectful to these individuals, for the hobby as a whole, to adopt the position, "if you don't compete, your opinion doesn't matter." YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Nov 08, 2005 7:16 PM
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