rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
391 posts
Nov 08, 2005
2:53 PM
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To All, in light of some recent and past discussions that took on a very negative tone and hoping to cut off others before they can start, I thought it might be useful to involve you, members of this online roller community to offer suggestions to help create a practical All Roller Talk posting policy.
I would like to see one that protects everyone from discussions that are hurtful, spiteful and generally disruptive to the spirit of this community of roller breeders.
This policy when completed will be placed on a page where anyone can refer to it or be referred to it as needed to maintain the value and integrity of All Roller Talk.
I think a posting policy that the majority of us can get behind will go a long way to create a safe environment for newcomers as well as old-timers.
So, can you give some of your ideas and thoughts so a good policy can be fleshed out? Thanks!!!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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nicksiders
284 posts
Nov 08, 2005
4:10 PM
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I don't believe in howlering down somebody's neck, but what is worse is to keep everything on a "mamby-pamby" bases. To have a strong difference of opinion is healthy for the hobby and healthy for this outstanding site.
Name calling is another matter. Strong opinions doesn't mean we have to get involved in name calling. There is absolutley no need.
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fhtfire
245 posts
Nov 08, 2005
4:54 PM
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Tony,
To be honest with you...I read all the threads that you have locked...over and over. All I saw was some very very very very very very strong opinions. I think if people want to vent there opinions is fine. I myself was not offended by any comments...even if the were made at me. I actually chuckled quite a bit..LOL! Heated debates just make me want to get on the computer more....just to see what the response will be...LOL!!! I think that we are adults and you are a pretty level headed person. IF you see something that is truly offensive....then step in...it is your site...but people jawing at each other is fine....because sooner or later...someone on the site steps in and smooths things over anyway! I actually learn a lot from the jawing...a lot of good point come up in the heat of the moment....because the fact of the matter is...there is still a lot of thought put into heated responses because you are typing and not talking....for god sakes if you saw Scott Campbell type...LOL! He has to put in a lot of thought...because he types so slow...LOL...Just my opinion...Now if someone calls someone a total asshole...well, then that is personal...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Velo99
144 posts
Nov 08, 2005
6:21 PM
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Tony,
I agree with Paul. There weren`t any offensive expletives and the parties did manage to display thier opinions of the subjects with out resorting to vulgarities,so I think it was all "legal". It was for the most part a well spoken and highly entertaining debate.
YITS
V99
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LONGS ROLLER LOFT
18 posts
Nov 08, 2005
6:39 PM
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Tony beening able to disagree on a open forum is part of what's made our country great. I think as long as the parties agree to no name calling and no strong profanity pointed at one another.let it go. I was always taught that when a person started using strong profanity and name calling it was because he was losing the argument or knew little about what he was arguing about. On the last discussion that got a little heated about (time in). I had heard bits and pieces from different persons but never had a clear view of the facts. I think I got the facts clearly in the last discussion. I personally made no comment. But I did draw a conclusion. I have learned over the years that no matter what you set the speed limit. Some people will think it is too fast and some people will think it is to slow.then some will argue with the sign and then throw rocks because it would not argue back. very few things in this world are made without friction and/or pressure and personally I like it like that.a little heat in any relationship is usually a little exciting and productive.anyway what did that one guy say (they're just freaking pigeons.)just gota love it. flying rollers that is
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yours in the sport Rick
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Dave Szab
3 posts
Nov 08, 2005
6:49 PM
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Tony,
I'm new to this list, but I have been on many other roller lists and I do not believe in censorship. I do not know about the problems that have occured on here before, but I believe that if you voice strong opinions on these lists, then you should be able to defend yourself, and those opinions, without needing big brother stepping in. Now saying all of that, there can be extreme circumstances when you might need to step in and put an end to things, BUT I stress that that should be for EXTREME circumstances only.
Dave Szabatura
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Double D
67 posts
Nov 08, 2005
7:10 PM
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Tony,
I also agree with what has already been shared. I'm fairly new to the site and what goes on here doesn't run me off or leave a bad taste in my mouth. I realize not everyone is the same and heated discussions may offend some. They seem to be some of the best discussions to learn from however. I haven't seen anything yet that would warrant any changes being made.
Darin
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nicksiders
286 posts
Nov 08, 2005
8:44 PM
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I have never been offended by anything that has been said on the site. I have strongly disaggreed with many things said, but never offended . This site is by far the most informative of any site of its kind......bar none.
Make sure that whatever we do (you do) do not chase anyone away. I feel that this site has attracted and continues to attract some of the very best in our hobby and what they say is extremely valuable.
Don't get too involved in censoring...........as long as no one is yelling "fire" in a crowded theater that is not on fire we will be OKAY.
It is okay with me to read what Cliff and Kenny are saying to each other as long as it is okay with Cliff and Kenny....LOL
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knaylor
26 posts
Nov 08, 2005
9:54 PM
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Tony, I believe that is you start to censor or control the topice too much you will lose visitors on this site. I think that if someone really offends someone or personally attacks them then by all means do what needs to be done. The recent topics that were locked were about how the big comps are being ran. The big flys and all comps are a big part of the birmingham roller. It will allways be here and so will the color issue. Just my two cents, Kevin
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
392 posts
Nov 08, 2005
9:59 PM
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Hello All, class and good manners are never out of style. Rude, obnoxious and boorish behavior poisons the atmosphere and is not entertainment.
Is it not an assault on the values and standards of those of us who would endeavor to play by the rules by essentially saying there are no rules and therefore anything goes (all except cussing of course. No one wants to actually read the words that someone is an “ass” but we sure can hint and play around with the idea that someone is all day long. We just can’t actually post the words!?)?
We must not allow this site to be hijacked by cynical trolls with an agenda and get fooled into believing that it is just all good friendly infotainment and that no harm is actually being committed.
There are roller lists where anything, I mean anything goes. These kinds of terrorists are welcome there. Evil doers do not help this site. No matter how they dress up their words. It is the space between the lines that is often holding the real message.
Rest assured there are those just laughing at this thread and having a good time with it. They caused it, they made this entire ruckus. Me’s think we are being played. Can someone persuade me that class, good writing and manners went out of style?
I want to hear from more of you. This is enlightening to hear all these opinions of what is acceptable on these boards. I would also like to hear from those that are taken back and turned off by certain posts. Are you out there?
PS Please note the gentleman-like qualities to all the previous posts in this thread. I think some of you are proving the point about class, good writing and manners still being in style whether intended or not. Thanks.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
393 posts
Nov 08, 2005
10:10 PM
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Here is a word picture...
Suppose you and your significant other went out to a nice expensive restaurant on a Friday night after a long week of work to relax and have good conversation.
Suddenly some other couple starts to argue and insult each other with foul words and comments.
You ask them to please hold it down as you and your significant other have waited all week for this time and that their behaviour is troubling you. They tell you to "kiss off" and mind your own business.
You do what?
* Stay in the restaurant and ignore them?
* Pay your check and leave?
* Voice your opinion to the management and hope they handle the situation?
* Watch the entertainment?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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nicksiders
287 posts
Nov 08, 2005
10:21 PM
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Tony - now you have went and did it; you gave us a choice.....LOL
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
394 posts
Nov 08, 2005
10:23 PM
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hehehehehe...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
249 posts
Nov 08, 2005
11:30 PM
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Tony, there are many different philosophys that can apply here, as many as there are opinions and personalities. Each and every viewer/participant witnesses and expresses things from a standpoint unique to themselves. That is what makes each person individually unique in the first place.
This forum is similar to a lounge where people who in one form or another, share a similar enthusiasm. If they didn't they wouldn't be here. As the cast of participants within the room increases, so does the spectrum of sensitivity. Each person's character is different, and eventually some characters will clash in moments of passionate expression while others will be taken back by the moment and withdraw with cautious concern. Passion breeds expression. To what degree that expression is understood will be different depending on the person in question.
I highly doubt that many folks find this great forum as a "retreat" from the worldly grind with the sole purpose of finding relaxing solice. This place is, in fact, sought after on a daily basis, not only by our desire to listen and participate, but often out of curiosity. Some people yearn to educate or help, others to engage in interesting topics and viewpoints while others just want to sit back and enjoy the show.
One of the most popular TV programs of all time was the ridiculusly stupid Jerry Springer Show. Personally I found the program to be just plain dumb while cultivating ignorance and mindless banter. But while I felt the show was dumb, millions of others obviously didn't. Should they have changed the format of the show to become more fitting for my sensitivity?
No one makes anyone participate or even read the posts of this forum. They come for a various reasons. As it is in daily life, for every person who crawls away in disgust, there are five more who relish the opportunity to engage in conversations and debates which pour from the heart and soul. And in most cases, while attention might become focused on the negative aspects, in the end, someone learns something while others gain a better understanding of their peers.
We don't have the opportunity to get to personally know one another in such a forum as this, or any other with an address that begins with www. Our words are about the only connection to one another in this format and the way we shape the opinions of each other will vary quite boldly from reality based upon our own unique personality.
This is your forum and you made it available for anyone to participate and I am sure everyone who visits here will thank you dearly for that opportunity. My suggestion is to allow common sense to be the dictator of reasonable action. If you, the host, don't like where a topic is heading, post one warning. If the subject continues, simply lock it down and be done with it. No need to even post a new thread explaining your position or decision. No need for opinions on the matter, just do what you feel needs to be done and move on. History has a way of showing us that usually what goes up (the threshold of sensitivity and expression) usually comes down. And when it does, something has been acheived in one form or another.
Here's a word picture for you.
A couple goes into a bar. Once inside they notice there are some unsavory looking dudes in there, a few swamp donkeys, a couple of guys dressed in business suits, a guy that looks like a police officer, and a group of older fellas that look like they just came from the Moose lodge meeting hall. The place is noisy at times as some of the fellas throw food at one another while expressing their fondness for the opposition's mother in a more than colorful tone. At another table the guys in the business suits and the cop-looking-dude are arguing over a bad call by the ref of the game they are watching on the big screen. As the guy who just came in with this girl inhales a deep breath of the atmosphere, slowly exhaling in a manner respresenting his pleasure, his girl looks at him with fear and concern. As the bartender approaches, the girl leans over the bar and asks the bartender what kind of place this is. The bartender replies, "this is the Roller-Pigeon Dot Com Bar, mam. Don't let these guys offend you, they are kind of high spirited, but they are all friends and come here every day". The guy smiles over to his girl and says, "cool isn't it"!
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Nov 08, 2005 11:33 PM
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
397 posts
Nov 08, 2005
11:41 PM
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Hey Brian, okay, who's the girl in your word picture! LOL Could Roller Pigeon Dot Com at least be a Bar AND a Grill??
Excellent post. I noted your suggestions for the policy and think they are very good ones. Thanks!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
250 posts
Nov 08, 2005
11:50 PM
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Sure Tony, but everything on the menu is very spicy! Definitely not for the faint at heart..LOL.
Oh, and the girl is an ex-hippie chick who goes by the name of "Symbolic". (grin).
Brian.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
398 posts
Nov 08, 2005
11:54 PM
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I think I dated her one summer long ago! Not good!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
559 posts
Nov 09, 2005
3:25 AM
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Tony. First I don,t have a way with words like you & Briam.LOL.
I am one that feels that open discussion is good.Be it Politics,Competition,or just plain Mainatence of Rollers. We all have are different ways of doing & saying things.
Brian can say something on a Topic and it sounds like it came from a Poet or some College professor.Let me speak on the same subject and it comes out sounding like something from some Hillbilly stuck in the Woods and never had much education.(Which I am.LOL.)
Lord knows I have taken my Hits from several about my Color Rollers.Have I got upset.Yes I have and I defended my beliefs with replys.Some were wrote in the moment of Heated discussions.But what I am trying to say is before hitting the POST button I would take the time(well almost every time) to read my Post before sending it.I have deleted a lot of some things I could have said because I tried to keep it to where I could prove a point but still not put someone else down or the way they believed.
I don,t like seeing someone being attacked for what they believe in.I don,t like Cuss Words and see no need to have them in any discussion to prove a point.I don,t like seeing Threads Locked either.But I also think that there has to be some Censorship on any Discussion.Be it from the person who is writing a Post or from You or Big Al.If there is something in a Post that looks like someone is getting Personal or trying to Degrade another for their belief then I think that part of the Post needs to be Deleted.Sooner or later if someone keeps posting personal attacks etc. and see that these things are being deleted from their post will soon know that it is useless to take the time to write this stuff.
I don,t think You or Big Al even need to come on and give a warning if things start to get out of hand.Just Delete from the Post what needs Deleted and if someone gets Hostile just Delete their whole post.That should be warning enough.If not then there is no place on this Forum for that person.My Opinion such as it is. David
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Shaun
196 posts
Nov 09, 2005
4:21 AM
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I don't know if it's the same in the US but in the UK, the Government sometimes uses a policy which is essentially 'Put your house in order, or we'll do it for you'. An example would be our estate agents (realtors), who for many years would spice up their home adverts to make them sound more attractive to buyers. They were given time to tighten up their act, but in the end the Goverment felt obliged to introduce legislation to curb their excesses. So, nowadays, estate agent adverts are largely benign and factual, because they didn't put their house in order, when given the chance.
The same 'self-regulation' on the part of the contributors should perhaps be given an opportunity. Al and Tony could evaluate this over the coming weeks, then decide whether or not it has worked. If it hasn't, then no-one can really complain about the consequences.
In any event, I really don't think it's fair to expect Al and/or Tony to have to read through each and every post, deleting sections or whole posts where deemed appropriate. That sounds like a lot of effort on their part, for not much in return.
Shaun
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rotti
6 posts
Nov 09, 2005
4:53 AM
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Kind of funny how things work in the roller world. Wasn't it about this time last year this site changed things? Things were getting heated and people seemed to get their feathers ruffeled and the site went private. I could be wrong about the timing but it seems when things get heated Tony, you put it to a hault. So why change the rules? Just continue what is working. When things get to hot? Pour on some water. Otherwise let your site continue to grow. It's the one place I make sure I visit everyday to see what I might be doing wrong or right with my own birds. I just gave some birds to a homer guy and the advice to check out this site. I think the posts whether heated or not will be of great value to him. He can learn more here in a few weeks than he could learn by trial and error in years. So let the forum be. When you see the need to step in. Do so. But step in with the individuals you think need the reprimand. Don't lock the thread so others can't read and gain an understanding of why the thread was locked. As you've seen when a thread is locked it just moves to another. Just tell the offending person to end it. That's it. No matter what else is posted there they are not to respond. And they can not carry it into another discussion. I think most who post here could live with that. Once told they have crossed the line on a particular subject I think they would understand and live with it. Give them a graceful way out of the discussion. "Sorry Tony has asked me to no longer continue this discord. And I have agreed to abide by his wishes." And that ends it. Anything further between individuals should be done in private. This is an open forum. Not one for airing individual grievances. Personal differences should be dealt with personally. Don
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
399 posts
Nov 09, 2005
5:43 AM
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Hey Don, thanks for your input. I am really happy to hear that you come by regularly and check in. That was one of my objectives with this board which was to create an online community. This we have and it is great. I love to read the posts and continue to learn all the time.
I believe that it was around April or May that I took the discussion page offline for tempers that were flaring over some controversial issue. Rather than just put a freeze on the open discussion page for awhile, this time I thought I would involve all you guys so that what gets done is sort of on a general consensus basis.
Let me say, I have been told that are a number of very knowledgeable fanciers and others who read these pages daily but are hesitant to post due to the heated climate that does pop up from time to time. In other words, they feel it is not “safe” for them. I wish it were different.
So, I am trying to do the right thing by all of you folks, which is why I am asking for your input on a policy. If all agree that there should be a minimal community standard, then when I or a moderator take some action, it is already understood what is happening and I have the backing of the board majority.
I am already sensing a general consensus developing and I appreciate that. Really need to hear from more posters though. How about it?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
400 posts
Nov 09, 2005
5:57 AM
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Hello Shaun, thanks for your input. If the site members themselves can point to a policy then it does become possible to “self-police”.
There will now be a standard by which others can point out posts that are in violation to me or one of the moderators and action can be taken as needed.
Even board members can suggest to the poster to modify the post in question to conform to the community standard laid out in the board policy .
Yes, it can be quite a chore to read every single post everyday, but by having a policy in place, maybe we won’t have to. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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fhtfire
248 posts
Nov 09, 2005
6:14 PM
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I think that the girl that Brian was with in the bar was a nice looking Ruby roller Mealy Bar Hen.
LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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viper
12 posts
Nov 09, 2005
7:28 PM
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I have been comming to this site for I don't know how long to maybe pick something up from others.Filter through it use what I can forget the rest.I agree with Don's post.Blake
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