Shaun
215 posts
Dec 05, 2005
11:11 AM
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This is a question which might be of general interest to the newer flyers, like me. I posted this type of thing a while ago, but didn't get much response, so here goes again:
When people mention swapping pairs around, in order to experiment with various matings, it's as if it were an everyday thing, like changing the water. I tried it once and the cock and hen I wanted to pair up hated each other, so I gave up. Meanwhile, the 'abandoned' hen who had previously belonged to this cock, was beside herself until he came back to her.
So, does anyone have any particular techniques they adopt when swapping pairs, which can ease the pain for both the birds and the flyer?
Shaun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
281 posts
Dec 05, 2005
11:28 AM
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Sure. When I want to swap pairs around. I break them up, removing the cock and hen both from the pen and putting them in the break up pens for about a week. After a week's time, they can be remated with their new mate. Leave them together for 3-5 days in an individual pen, then they can be resettled into the open loft again if you like. But I would suggest just leaving them in an individual to avoid having to do it all over again if the hen decides she is not happy with her new mate.
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Shaun
216 posts
Dec 05, 2005
11:58 AM
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Thanks, Brian. Can you elaborate on the pens thing. I think part of my problem was that I simply halved the loft with dowelling-type doors, so the pair that I split up could see and hear each other, thus distracting them from the splitting up process. Are you saying you have a completely separate space for pairs you split up? How big is this? How do you prevent unwanted pairings whilst they're in 'limbo'?
When you try and establish new pairs, do they all get it on in accordance with your requirements? How long do you give them to start humping? Once the re-pairings are established, is there a problem putting them back into the same 'old' pen as their old mate?
If you split up a pair, does each cock get a new hen, and vice versa, or is it sometimes 'tough titty' and one is left on its own?
Shaun
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Norm_Knox
15 posts
Dec 05, 2005
7:50 PM
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Shaun, the best thing for you to do is to have individual breading pens if you have the space. That way mating new pairs is easier and you know for sure where your youngsters are coming from. Just my opinion. Good luck bud
Norm
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
283 posts
Dec 05, 2005
8:09 PM
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Can you elaborate on the pens thing. I think part of my problem was that I simply halved the loft with dowelling-type doors, so the pair that I split up could see and hear each other, thus distracting them from the splitting up process.
YAH, THAT COULD BE A PROBLEM. IF THEY CAN SEE EACH OTHER, THEY WILL SURELY TRY TO GET TO ONE ANOTHER.
IT'S LIKE THE OLD SAYING "OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND".
Are you saying you have a completely separate space for pairs you split up? How big is this? How do you prevent unwanted pairings whilst they're in 'limbo'?
I HAVE ABOUT 14 PENS (LOFTS) AND ABOUT A DOZEN INDIVIDUALS. I HAVE SEVERAL LARGE PENS THAT ARE DEDICATED BREAK UP AND CONDITIONING LOFTS ALL YEAR. THERE ARE ALWAYS BIRDS IN THOSE THAT I AM NOT BREEDING FROM AND THEY CAN ONLY SEE OUT THE FRONT.
When you try and establish new pairs, do they all get it on in accordance with your requirements? How long do you give them to start humping? Once the re-pairings are established, is there a problem putting them back into the same 'old' pen as their old mate?
IT'S THE HEN YOU HAVE TO GET TO REVERT TO DEFAULT MODE. THAT IS WHY SHE NEEDS A GOOD FIVE OR SO DAYS TO CHILL OUT AND REVERT HER MATERNAL INSTINCTS. USUALLY THEN I STICK THE NEW PAIRING INTO AN INDIVIDUAL PEN AND THEY WILL BE GETTING IT ON IN NO TIME AT ALL. WITHIN A FEW DAYS I CAN TOSS THEM BACK INTO THE LOFT, IF THAT LOFT HAS EXTRA NEST BOXES. BUT OFTEN, I WILL JUST LEAVE THEM IN THE INDIVIDUAL TO BREED FROM. YES, SOMETIMES THE HENS WILL GO BACK, I'D SAY I'VE HAD THAT HAPPEN A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT NOT MANY IF YOU KEEP THEM LOCKED UP IN THE INDIVIDUAL FOR SEVERAL DAYS. THE PROBLEM THAT USUALLY ARISES IS THE HEN WANTS HER OLD BOX BACK. IF ANOTHER PAIR TAKES THAT BOX WHILE SHE IS GONE, THERE WILL BE SOME FIGHTING. I'VE LEARNED TO JUST WALK AWAY. THEY WILL FIGURE IT OUT. ONE LOSES, ONE WINS, ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
If you split up a pair, does each cock get a new hen, and vice versa, or is it sometimes 'tough titty' and one is left on its own?
USUALLY IF I AM BREAKING UP A PAIR IT IS FOR ONE BIRD, SELDOM EVER BOTH OF THEM. I'VE GOT IT DOWN IN MY NOTES TO BREAK UP TWO PAIRS AFTER THREE ROUNDS SO THAT I CAN PUT ONE OF THE HENS ON THE OTHER COCK. THE OTHER TWO WILL JUST GO BACK INTO THE BREAK UP PEN.
SOMETHING YOU WILL PROBABLY LEARN PRETTY QUICKLY, AS DO MOST PIGEON FANCIERS, IS THAT YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH PENS. AND EVERY PIGEON FANCIERS SHOULD HAVE SOME INDIVIDUAL PENS, NOT ONLY FOR BREEDING BUT FOR ISOLATING BIRDS. THEY ARE ALSO THE BEST WAYS TO MATE UP PAIRS BEFORE INTRODUCING THEM TO THE LOFT.
Brian.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
284 posts
Dec 05, 2005
9:29 PM
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They vary. Half of them are 3ft wide x 2 ft tall x 2 feet deep. The others are 2ft wide x 18 inches tall and 18 inches deep. To my surprise, I've had the smaller ones for about six years and year after year, get better production in the smaller ones than the larger ones. I have no idea why, just the way it seems to work.
Brian.
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Shaun
217 posts
Dec 05, 2005
11:22 PM
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Brian, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated.
Shaun
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maxspin
11 posts
Dec 06, 2005
9:49 AM
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Shaun,
I use my old plastic widowhood nest fronts for my breeder loft. This allows me to lock the hen in the cock's nest box. When I want to swap the pairs, I pull the hen to where the cock can not see her, wait a week then put the new hen in the locked section. Give the cock half a day to get used to a new hen in his box, then lock them in together for two days. I only let them out at feeding time. The new pair is then bonded, and I can let them out.
I agree that given time individual breeder compartments would be better, but this works for me.
Keith
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Shaun
218 posts
Dec 06, 2005
10:04 AM
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Following on from what Keith posted above, the assumption seems to be that the cock will want to hump the new hen which is now sitting in his nestbox. That seems fair comment. But, on the one occasion I tried this, it didn't matter where I put the cock and his 'new' hen - she just didn't want to know. The cock gave up. I gave up. Was I just unlucky? What's the chances of this happening?
Shaun
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J_Star
132 posts
Dec 06, 2005
10:21 AM
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Shaun, It is possible that the hen you tried to break up formed a click with that cock. Sometimes, no matter what you try to do, a click pair is very diffecult to break up. Usually click pairs give you good offsprings.
Jay
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Shaun
219 posts
Dec 06, 2005
11:23 AM
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That's an interesting observation, Jay, and one I'll bear in mind.
Shaun
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Velo99
174 posts
Dec 06, 2005
5:01 PM
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Guys.
Once again I feel the 3 compartment boxes I am building are perfect for almost any breeding situation. When remating to a new pair the most important thing is for the cock to "own" the box. If the hen has been apart from her cock for a week or so she will readily take a new mate. She either has to be removed from the loft or secluded from the cocks line of sight.
The compartments in my boxes can be opened or closed to adjoin the next compartment or both can be removed and make on big compartment. I have two sliders a solid and a "viewing" slider with holes so they can see one another to make the mating process faster when they get together.
By letting them see each other they will form a bond and be ready to get down to business.
yits
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Dec 06, 2005 5:07 PM
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siddiqir
99 posts
Dec 07, 2005
12:23 PM
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Re-mating should not be a problem. Just lock them up and COCK will do the rest. Thanks, -Rauf
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kalapana_lofts
4 posts
Dec 07, 2005
2:49 PM
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Aloha Shaun, Would it be possible to contact me offline, I have a question for you off topic. My e-mail is honu.1@juno.com Mahalo, Marlo
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