Riaan
45 posts
Dec 13, 2005
2:23 AM
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Hi
Old timer in pigeons came and watched my kit.There was a black hen that was very active,but goes back to the kit every time.He suggested I should remove this bird 'cause over-active birds don't roll together.
Your Friend in the Sport
RIAAN
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
293 posts
Dec 13, 2005
12:12 PM
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I share his sentiments. I figured it out some time ago, those over active, rolling from the back of the kit birds destroy a kit's chemistry. Some kits perform totally different once those kinds are removed. Give it a try for a week or two and see if your kit look different in the air.
Brian.
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J_Star
146 posts
Dec 13, 2005
1:16 PM
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I agree with Brian, however, if the bird is young then give her a chance and will usually straighten out. I said usually based on my observation with my Jaco birds.
If the young don't straighten out once they mature a bit, then to me they become either a cull or an 11 bird team member.
I also found out that those type of performers, most times changing the feed structure for them will change their behavior. Same as with the outcast birds, the ones that leave the kit for a little while to fly on their own or above the kit. This is just observation with my own Jaco birds and might be different to others.
Jay
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Shaun
223 posts
Dec 13, 2005
1:21 PM
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Jay & Brian? Would it really take that long? Surely removing one overactive bird - or any bird, for that matter, which was adversely affecting the kit - wouldn't the results be obvious as soon as it was removed?
Shaun
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
295 posts
Dec 13, 2005
2:11 PM
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Shaun, that would depend on the kit. If you had a seasoned kit of performers, a person might notice their birds work better together when they are all together. Removing an overactive bird from such a kit should show improved results pretty quickly.
If the kit is a younger, maturing kit, sometimes the kit will take a few flys before a new pattern begins to develop, and their performance as a group, improves. Often those overactive birds in a younger kit are actually stimulating, to varying degrees, others to roll. I like to call it a popcorn effect. Once the overactives are removed, it will take a while for the rest of the kit to find their new groove.
Just for the record for some who might read this, I am not implying that you go out and fly your kit and look for an overactive bird to remove, in hopes your kit will automatically get better. It doesn't work that way. Birds that need to be removed should be "obvious".
One of the hardest things for many roller flyers to do is to remove a bird that is rolling from their kit, especially if that bird is deep and really fun to watch as an individual.
Brian.
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viper
14 posts
Dec 13, 2005
7:44 PM
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What is considered a old bird kit yearlings or 2 year olds or older?Then where does a trigger bird fit in a kit rolling from the front of the kit I'm guessing.Blake
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Velo99
177 posts
Dec 13, 2005
8:06 PM
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Guys
Geez, I have birds in my kit from six months to two years. Being in the position of not having the luxury of numerous birds to choose from, I have to dance with the ones that brung me. I have noticed an almost immediate diference in the performance of the kit when I alter the members.
They seem to be like a group of adolescents who are vying for the front spot, while no one individual will step up and take it.They will alienate a new member even if it is a former member of the kit. Once they get used to the bird again the kit returns to hopefully a better state.
I feel once a bird steps up I will have a pretty decent kit. I have three birds who will lead the kit and one who turns them C.C. I pull him occasionally. If he were`nt such a good roller he would be l`histoire.This is his only fault,gives me nice tight 30 `s and kits really nice.He can stay for now. I think if I have time to make a comment like" holy spit! nice roll. It is in the 25-30 foot range.
Blake, if you have a bird who flies in the front most of the time and the other birds watch and react to his rolling ABILITIES , he is your trigger bird. If he rolls deep the others will roll deep or deepER. If he rolls shallow.......
YITS
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Dec 13, 2005 8:19 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
296 posts
Dec 13, 2005
9:05 PM
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Blake, most consider old birds as birds beyond one year of age. I generally consider old birds as those which have went through two molts. After the second molt, a lot of rollers change.
Brian.
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Fr.mike
94 posts
Mar 16, 2006
1:11 PM
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Jim what is counter clock movement?
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motherlodelofts
646 posts
Mar 16, 2006
3:51 PM
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I'll just throw them in another kit as long as they are kitting, normaly they will mature out of it and can be some super birds , the ones that don't normaly become problems as far as kitting, at least with my family.
Scott
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Mount Airy Lofts
145 posts
Mar 16, 2006
4:42 PM
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Are we talking about over active young birds or over active old birds. I usually find that my birds take longer to mature. I usually don't notice much breaking, just water falling, until they have matured.
I have a line that I am working with that is plaqued with constant super frequent rollers. They kit very well even tho they are constantly working their butts off. I find that if these birds are removed, my other birds will work better and have more kit chemistry. Altho, once these super birds have matured, they turn out great. They will still be frequent but will also bust when the other birds go.
When I talk about super frequent, I am talking about a bird that will roll, come back to the kit and roll again. Repeating this all thru the fly. Most of the time, the rolls will be of average grade but when the kit goes, it will crank it up some notch. You will also notice that it is plaqued with flips and tumbles along the way. The birds seems to always be doing something.
I don't find nothing wrong with this as long as they work their buts off and kit... also if they don't pull my team down.
I don't know how fast other families are in maturity but mines seem to take alittle longer. I guess it is up to you to know your birds.
I have traits that accompany certain blood. Like the constant flippers - which turn into constant rollers. These birds usually never string their rolls. One day, they will be doing singles or doubles, then whammo - 10 plus footers.
I also have the super early developing rollers. These birds will string their flips until they become short quick spins and gradually add in their rolls.
The I have the late developers that will just come in out of the blue - from nothing to rolling. I usually cull most of these because I don't care much for late developers but I have flown some out and they sure can crank it. Just don't care for it in the breeding stock as I don't have the time to wait a year or so for them.
What I do notice is the blood that holds the early developing birds tend to mature alot quicker. These birds will be the first to start breaking.
Maturity plays alot - you just have to learn how to observe your birds. Then again, if you breed over 150 birds a year... I can see why you wouldn't have the time to get to know them individually. Not saying you do but just a general comment for those who do. Then again, I could be wrong if you are retired and spend the whole day with the birds.
Thor
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Mar 16, 2006 4:48 PM
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