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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
roll down and Eyes flashing
roll down and Eyes flashing
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Bill C
16 posts
Dec 18, 2005
7:46 PM
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Last week I had a bird out of the last kit I had trained in late summer roll down. This bird started rolling at about 300 feet or higher and began to fly spirolling down, rolled a few more times say 10 feet and flew almost straigt down with its head arched back. We've all seen a bird do this and then walk around like it was drunk. Well I ran to get the bird when it finally hit the ground in my yard and saw it staggering about. I picked it up and it was fine physically but its eyes were dialationg the pupil big and then smal, big and then small every second. I watched it as I held it in my hands, this went on for a good four or five minutes. I like to feel them as some might have fewer back muscles and off course mentally week. The black pupil went small as a mustard seed which is very small and big as a large pea. Perhaps the bird was just dizzy and the eyes were the result of this? I did not examine the eyes of other rollers that have come down like this before. The next time I will . I have the bird in a cage to be culled as I like to cull just before the trash is taken away. I often fly birds twice when they roll down just in case it was a freak accident but this is the second time for this fellow. Have any of you noticed the eyes of a roller that has rolled down and did not kill itself before? I just thought it was fascinating to see the eyes going crazy.
It makes me wonder if the birds eyes are open or shut when they roll, or do they blink each time they make a full circle as they flap their wings? Maybe from the bright sun light and having the wings go over the birds head at each roll made the eyes dialate the same way when you look at a birght lingt and blink your eyes at night you can see the light each time you blink. With all my best rollers thier eyes have a spaced out look to them like they are stoned or something like that. Pensom called it an inteligent look to them and i call it a spaced out look to them. Eyes wide open looking at you when the other birds are going da, da, wheres the grain. I think the eyes have a lot to tell about a roller if we can figure it out in each family we develop. Bill
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
593 posts
Dec 19, 2005
4:20 AM
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Bill. I wouldn,t be to quick to cull this bird.Feed it up for 7 to 10 days and try it again.I usually give them 3 chances.Some come out of it but most don,t.If they do come out of it you usually wind up with a good roller that is pleasant to watch roll.I have even had some that learned not to go in the roll.LOL.
According to some that is good at videoing these rollers they are suppose to roll with their eyes open.I have watched closely and they must be open to be able to pull out of a roll just before hitting it.How they can see when in a blurring roll is beyond me.
I have been having a lot of bumping and some rolling down upon release the past couple of weeks.I think Snow covering everything has something to do with it.I even had 2 rolldowns from a couple hundred feet.I also added some corn & sunflower to their mix since its been cold.I think that makes them do goofy things too.I had a kit blow up yesterday and was flying all over the sky like a kit of new birds.
I have been trying to evaluate each thing as per roller and if I can't find something that is causing the defects then I cull.David
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Shaun
228 posts
Dec 19, 2005
11:07 AM
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David, I'm interested in what you just said there. This last couple of weeks, one of my Masons started to roll down - not in the lawn dart sense, but more it just lost control and ended up in a tree or hedge. Then, just this week, my very best bird has started to do the same - but only on release. I was standing looking the other way to the kit and suddenly I felt a hard thump on my arm - my best bird. Would it have survived had it hit the ground? I don't know. Next day, it landed in thick bushes immediately after release. Up till now, we're talking very consistent, stable birds. What the hell has happened? It's very cold, I've upped their feed, but it's certainly got me scratching my head in wonderment.
I seriously think that if this is a phenomenon associated with the time of year - the cold and what have you, I'm wondering if it would be better locking the buggers up until it gets a bit warmer.
Shaun
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J_Star
148 posts
Dec 19, 2005
12:53 PM
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Well, I kind of disagree that it is the time of year that is causing them to bump. Rather it is the cooped up quarters that they live in. After a while it effect some birds in the kit. Take those birds out of the kit box and put them in a larger loft where they can fly from perch to perch for a week and they will get back to their normal. I don't know if it is the excitment of their release that triggers the rolling prematurely or their restlessness.
Also if you are feeding them a pigeon mix for the winter, make sure that the mix don't contain oily seeds. Too much of it will also cause that kind of behavior. Eliminate the oily seeds and leave them in a larger compartment for a week and they should be fine.
Jay
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Shaun
230 posts
Dec 19, 2005
1:33 PM
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Jay, the loft for my flying birds isn't your typical kit box; it's a 7 feet by 5 feet shed which I walk into. At the moment, there's only about 18 birds in there, so there's ample room; there's loads of perches and even a cage attached for them to sun themselves, weather permitting. The feed? Well, yes, it's true - it's gone from predominantly wheat to more in the way of breeder food - peas, beans and seeds - mixed in with the wheat. Their flying performance is the same as usual - good rolling and trapping.
Why do you think the oily stuff would make a difference? And, if there's a reasoning to it, why only the odd bird behaving oddly on release and not the whole damn lot?
Shaun
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Velo99
180 posts
Dec 19, 2005
5:14 PM
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Shaun,
Same thing here mate. I had five rolldown a couple of days ago. I was pulling broken tailfeathers last night.I think it is the feed. I fed them up becuase of the cold and had to keep them in for a couple of days because of the wind.Bad combinmation. I th9nk if you let them out a few at a time and maybe pitch them when you do. I did this a long time ago with some bumpers and it seemed top help. Gonna do it again tomorrow.
Luck
V99
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Mount Airy Lofts
54 posts
Dec 20, 2005
6:18 PM
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I've all ways noticed more bumping this time of the year. I believe it is the cold snow that triggs some sort of reaction and hence causes birds that normally wouldn't roll that low or bump start mad bumping on release.
I have even had birds that can only tumble start rolling down right off the roof. I am talking birds that have never rolled a day in their young life, start rolling down right off the roof.
I have also noticed young birds that have been locked up in a bigger loft (breeding loft) start rolling down inside the loft this time of the year. These are birds that are stable as a rock.
Then again, I upped the corn ration and in the past, I have found that corn is a main curpit of causing my birds to bump. Corn, the cold weather, snow, and over cast days seem to cause a over load of the senses and hence results in bumping or rolling down.
I just had a bird bump hard on the roof the other day. It flew up about 5 feet and whammo. It all most killed itself that day from five feet up but seem to have fully recover.
Now going to the eye flex being linked to roll downs. I have not yet witness such myself. All the roll downs that I have seen either never make it back or make it back acouple of hours later with bruised to swollen eyes. It's kind of hard to see the eyes when they are swollen. (grin)
The ones that roll down near, would go crashing into the swamp near by.
I don't recall any true roll downs ever rolling down around me so I can catch them. Which I could care less about catching them.
I am like most people, giving a bird that has roll down a benefit of doubt. I'll give it rest for 2 weeks or so and refly it. If it does it again, it is as good as gone.
Thor
P.S. Your findings are quite interesting. I have never heard of the eye flexing like that when it rolls down. I have watch top birds eye flex in and out while out of the fly pen hanging about but never after such a performance. I have only notice the flexing of eyes from the top producing birds in the stock loft as they stroll about in the fly pen. All others have a fix pupil.
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Dec 20, 2005 6:21 PM
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