Double D
90 posts
Dec 21, 2005
8:43 PM
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If you were just starting your very first breeding season with the first birds you've owned what would you do?
I have enough young birds to make about 7 to 8 solid pairs. These birds haven't been flown out or bred yet so I have no idea what their performance is in the air nor in the breeding loft. To speed the process along so that I know what quality of young I'll get, I'm wondering the following:
Would it be a good idea to put the pairs together, get 4 young from each pair, then break them up and put them with different partners in the middle of the breeding season and get 4 more young birds from each new pair? I'm wondering if this might help me find some click pairs faster than leaving a pair together the entire breeding season. I'm making the assumption that 4 young, while not very many, should give me a decent indication of what kind of young the parents will produce.
Would this approach make sense or is it flawed? If it's flawed, how so?
I'm searching for a way to speed up my program a little. Thanks in advance for your opinions.
Darin
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Norm_Knox
26 posts
Dec 21, 2005
9:06 PM
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Check and see if you have any double-banded birds and try to put them together (birds out of good pairs from the previous owner are usually double banded). I mean it is completely your choice. You might get some good ones you might not. My advice is wait until hawk season is over, fly your birds out and see what you have and than pair them up. It’s worth waiting trust me. Just my opinion. Hope this helps
Norm
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fhtfire
270 posts
Dec 21, 2005
9:53 PM
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Big D,
I would fly them out to see what you have. If the birds come from a really tight family..just put them together...the genes should be there. When I say tight family...I mean birds like Tony or Scott Campbell..just an example...birds like these fanciers are very tightly bred. So you know the genes are there. Even flying them out does not tell you everything without a history. Get some info from the breeder...maybe that person can tell you what to put with what.
If you are just going to pair them up...I would put birds that are like together and then do what you said...breed a couple rounds 3-4 rounds of each and then swap them around. The double band thing is kind of true too..I put the normal band on one leg and then my custom band on the other from my best pairs...especially if I know they are going to someone else....then when the bird is rocking and rolling...there is no question what loft it came from..the band will say it!
It is always best to fly them out...then you know what you have for sure. But again a really tight family...hell you can roll the dice.
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
Last Edited by fhtfire on Dec 21, 2005 9:54 PM
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upcd
109 posts
Dec 21, 2005
9:54 PM
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Why are people double banding? Isn't a single band good enought? Or do we need 3 or 4?
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
598 posts
Dec 22, 2005
3:31 AM
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UPCD. A single band is plenty for anyone to keep records but like Paul said when we double band(one band with the number on one leg and one band with your name & phone number on the other)we are usually doing this on the best pairs we are breeding from.Like Paul said anywhere one of these birds wind up you can know at a glance where they came from and can contact its breeder for any info one would like to know.
What I did last year was to order the name & numbered bands. Everything was on one band.Name,Address,Phone,Year and the number of each band.Cost of 40.00 per hundred from NBRC.You have to order a min.of 100 I think.This worked great but any bands that are left over is useless for the 2006 year.
This year I am ordering just the Name Bands and they can be used in any year so I will be double banding some of my rollers.
This will balance out the roller so they won,t be off balance when they roll.LOL.(Just Joking) David
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J_Star
149 posts
Dec 22, 2005
5:24 AM
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DD,
When I first started with rollers I flew mine for two seasons b4 start breeding them. I wanted to make sure that I breed only from solid birds that have the whole package. Most rollers change in their second year, either they become better or they go down hill. Majority go down hill thou. They start to bump or not so frequent and the list is long. That is the route I chose to take to make sure and have no doubt about the breeders.
You don’t have to do what I did, but you can divide your birds in two groups. Fly one group and breed the other. After flying your birds and notice some exceptional ones then stock them immediately. This way you can test half of your birds as breeders and the other half as flyers. As you stock some of the proven ones, release some of the breeders (the ones that you think did not give the majority of good rollers) from their duties to become flyers for the rest of the season and test them. If they prove that they are good rollers then re-mate them with other mates and stock them back again.
Doing it this way will give you the best of both worlds. You will enjoy flying some kit birds this coming season and the same time breed the others.
The way I prefer to do it is to select three excellent cocks and mate each to several good hens and back pair the best hen youngsters to their father and repeat the process so that I can replicate the cocks’ abilities and establish uniformity within my loft. If you have a well inbred family, their ancestry is the same in all three lines and down the road you can use the other lines to reinstall viogour if needed.
There are many ways you can skin the cat so to speak and you can choose the method that is best for your setup and situation. Keep in mind, with that many breeders, in a very short time you will have a surplus rollers that you don’t know what do with and it is the quality that you are after not the quantity. It is very difficult for any fancier to spend a season or two breeding to find out that his breeders are not so good and the end results are not good either. Flying some of your rollers the first season will give a clearer indication of the good ones out of the bunch to stock the following season and at minimum you will avoid the guessing part with them. Good luck…
Jay
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upcd
111 posts
Dec 22, 2005
1:52 PM
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Blues, Thank you, for your anwser. So One is bird Id and the other is Personal Id. Before I had the anwser, I thought is was to make the people think it was a hot bird.
Last Edited by upcd on Dec 22, 2005 1:52 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
599 posts
Dec 22, 2005
3:22 PM
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Upcd.I have a long story about one of my rollers but I will make it very short.LOL.
I had a Hawk attack the kit I had won my region with this past fall and after a couple hours all had returned except a little Silver Check hen.I knew the Hawk must have got her.3 days later a lady called and said she had one of my pigeons and would I come get it.I lose several from overflys & some that just are plain to dumb to find their way back so I figured it was one of them.She lives about 5 miles from me(only 3 the way the crow flys)and she told me the pigeon was hurt and had blood all over its wings.It was my Silver Check Hen.To make this short it somehow escaped from the Hawk and made a full recovery and is back in my kit flying again.This all came about by having my name & Phone number on its band.David
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Double D
91 posts
Dec 23, 2005
1:13 PM
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Thanks for the input everyone. I really don't want to take a chance on losing these birds as I wouldn't be able to replace them so I won't fly them out. I should have mentioned that in the original post.
I think I'll do as I talked about and then build my loft using the young I get and can fly out as my foundation stock for year two. Their parents, (the birds I have now), I'll continue to experiment with and work into the breeding program as needed after this first year. There's no question the birds I have now are quality birds and have the goods, it will just take longer to figure out which ones will be of value to my program in the future and which ones won't because they've not been flown out.
Will pairs that are broken up in the middle of the breeding season re-mate with different birds in the matter of a few days or weeks? (Keep in mind I lock my pairs in individual breeding cages, I do not practice an open loft).
Darin
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Velo99
186 posts
Dec 24, 2005
7:22 AM
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Darin,
Keep the old pair apart where they can`t see each other.It has been my experience that you can trade out hens after a couple of days of breaking them up. Then just lock her in with the cock. Once the pairs are established they will stay in their own boxes for the most part. I just lock the pair down when it is time to tread again.
If you have a dominant cock and indie pens you can pull the other cocks and leave the cock in. Lock down the hens. Put a perch where they can see the cock while he is on it. Let this go on for a day or two. Put the cock in the a hen for 1/2 hour. Pull him for a half hour then put him in the next box etc.After the first couple of boxes they will see what is happening and be ready so you can do two boxes then a break of 1/2 hour. Do it again the next day in the opposite order. Let em sit for a day then let the cocks back in to complete the laying and raising tasks. Let the regular cocks raise a round then repeat procedure. Over half you birds will be related counting the chicks from the main cock depending on the numer of rounds.
YITS
Good Luck
V99
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