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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
What would you do?
What would you do?
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Fr.mike
45 posts
Dec 30, 2005
10:32 AM
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Hey All! Ok I got my first birds.Five pair from Steve Agent.They are norm reed line birds.I also have ten very young birds comming from Ruby rollers.
I have a basic goal the first breading season of finding out what birds in the (Reed) bunch have the goods.All of the (Agent/Reed) birds have been flown and were kept by Steve --All good performers. Steve has recemended the pairs he believes would do the best.I believe it would be the better part of wisdom to stick with his suggestion.
My question: How would you go about this?
A-wouldyou keep all the recemended pairs together the entire season--fly everything ?
B-Breed two rounds and switch ?
C-( Iam new at this so please bear with me-Iam trying to minamize the shell game Lol)---With either plan--how do I put my finger on the cocks or hens that are really holding the good cards?
Now as to the Ruby's--All are very young and probably wont be ready to breed until sometime in April/early May.If I get two rounds I will be Happy--seeing that they will be new to the mateing game.I am assuming Tony will make his suggestions as far as pairs go.
How would you go about determining which birds out of the ten unflown babys have the goods?
A.-Get as many rounds as you can-fly every thing--keep the best as holdovers Then breed the same pairs the next season before making any decisions?
As I said my main goal is to find the best out of both lots and then narrow down the breeders to the very best---and to my way of thinking only then will I REALLY have begun.
I am very open to your Sage advise
Thank you all for your time and imput
Mike
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Norm_Knox
35 posts
Dec 30, 2005
3:59 PM
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Mike,
for the Reed birds you should go with the advice you got from Steve. As for Ruby’s ask Tony and see what he says or just go with your instinct. Just my two cents. Later
Norm
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Fr.mike
46 posts
Dec 30, 2005
4:16 PM
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Thanks Norm I will be taking there advise! but what I was looking for is imput into others ideas as to narowwing down the field.That is how would you or others in the shortest amount of time--find the key birds that I have?What methods would You employ?
Thanks again
Mike
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glenn
6 posts
Dec 30, 2005
9:30 PM
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Mike:
Breed the birds the way you were told to for a full season. And fly all of the young, keep good records and notes. In your 2nd year of breding talk to Steve again and if he is close by have him look the birds over and remate them for you or maybe add one or two of your young birds to the mix. So far as the Ruby Rollers are concerned, if you are not going to fly them you should let them sit for a year and let them mature a bit. Remember pigeons are not fully mature until they are 3 years old and they will change on you they mature. Mate them up per ther type & balance and see what happens. Fly them hard and try not to stock before 2 years old if possible.....Glenn
Last Edited by glenn on Dec 30, 2005 9:35 PM
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fhtfire
272 posts
Dec 30, 2005
10:26 PM
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The advice that you are getting from people on this forum is very good advice. You should ask the breeder what pairing would be best. I do not know much about the Reed birds that you have...but I know quite a bit about the Ruby Rollers...since I have been flying them since 04 and have talked pigeons with Tony on the phone for hours. Right now I have about 20+ young ruby rollers in my young bird kit and let me tell you...I have 8 that have come into the roll and they look freak'n AWESOME! The others are young yet...but starting to put it together.... I have one pair of breeders that are 04 birds that I bought from Tony last yearl....and I too had to make the choice to fly or not to fly. For the price...I chose not to fly.....Tony sent me two young birds that he felt should be mated together...and they produced some damn good spinners this year. Tony should tell you what birds to mate together. One good thing about Tonys birds is that they are very close in relation to each other....so the genes are there..If I were you I would put them together the way Tony thinks would work the best and then go from there. Fly the young and judge the pairs based on your records. The second thing is to keep the best pairs together...and then move the weaker pairs around and see what you get with the new matings. If they are still not very good..dump the cocks from the weaker pairs..then take all the weaker producing hens and put your two best cocks on the weaker hens and see what they produce.....if they start producing good spinners...cull the other cocks and breed your two best cocks to all the hens and go from there. If you have some weak producers even on the two good cocks...then cull the weaker hens....That should help you find the best cocks and hens in short order. If you have 10 Ruby Rollers....I would bet money that you will end up with..... when it is all said and done...you will have 2 cocks and 4 good hens to start your project. ...I hope I made some sense...just keep the Ruby Roller pure....that is the key. You will be happy with what you got...they are good birds. Just keep good records!!! I would look for one more strain to compare...then you should be well on your way!
rock and ROLL
Paul Fullerton
Last Edited by fhtfire on Dec 30, 2005 10:28 PM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
613 posts
Dec 31, 2005
3:17 AM
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Mike.In all this planning with your breeding don't forget to get a kit together for the NBRC Fall Fly this year.LOL.We need all the flyers we can get.Still looking forward to meeting you.Take care and Have a Happy New Year.David
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John
4 posts
Dec 31, 2005
9:29 AM
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Mike,
I would breed 2 to 3 rounds the way Steve said, then switch them up so you have 8 to 12 young out of 1 hen on two different cocks. This way you find out who producing what very fast. You find out if you have any click pair or if there are any hens that produce well on several different cocks.If there are cocks that produce well on more then one hen. You will know after the first or second season and not have to wait 3-4 years to find out.
With these birds you will have a kit ready for the Fall Fly and there is a chance you could do very well with them.The birds will give a chance to not just be another flyer but be very competitive as well.You may shock a few flyers in your region.
Good Luck
John
Last Edited by John on Dec 31, 2005 4:50 PM
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Shaun
235 posts
Dec 31, 2005
3:04 PM
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Mike, I'm about 8 months ahead of you and I remember that same whole host of questions, back then. Now, with a season of flying and breeding under my belt, your natural enthusiasm and the boatload of questions, was me just a few short months ago. It's for these reasons I would say, slow down; all the questions you're asking are very much geared up to the future, whilst, for now, it's the present you have to deal with.
When you see the first eggs, you're delighted. You then bite your nails, wondering if both parents will do their job and sit the eggs properly. You then hope both eggs will hatch - sometimes neither will, sometimes just one, then again you might be OK and both will hatch. But, then, assuming you have a squab or two - will they be fed properly. If there are two babes, will one get it's fair share of the feed? You're willing Dad to give some food to the smaller one, which is looking a runt compared to the other, fat, greedy sod.
Assuming one or more squabs make it, at what point do you remove them from the nest? Then, when you do feel it's the right time, do you leave the parents nearby to carry on feeding their babes for a while, or do you practice drastic weaning and take them away to a separate pen and teach them to fend for themselves?
You get past all of this, then, at some point, you have to start training them. Now, this might be easy and they take off, have a flap about, then land and trap, just as you'd like. You then build on that.
Or, you might be unlucky and find that when they go up for the first time, one or more disappear over the trees/rooftops and don't come back. You're sick to the stomach and wonder what you did wrong.
But, hang on a minute; youngsters going up for the first time? When do you do this? Do you let them sit around until they're ready to take off at 6/7/8/9/10 weeks old, or do you scare them up at some point, to see some action. You will hear many have different opinions on this point alone.
If and when they go up, what do you do to get them back down? What are you feeding them on at this time? How hungry are they? You can't keep them too hungry; they're babies, so they need plenty of food. Yet, you can't have them stuffed, otherwise you won't be able to control them.
Fast forward a few weeks. You've got some sort of kit of youngsters going and you think you're doing OK. Then, suddenly the odd one starts to land early, perhaps on a rooftop or in a tree. Then, another, which was doing well, starts flying away from the kit. It's too early to start destroying any of them - they're still babies. Yet, that one which lands early is bringing the others down. The one that's flying out of the kit is causing the others to fly here, there and everywhere.
Move on a little further and, now, some are starting to roll. Oh dear, one of them is doing daft back flips right at the back of the kit and the others are finding this highly distracting. Then, another is finding the roll taking him/her very much by surprise, so it's just clipped the top of the tree and is looking decidedly shaken.
You're holding your head in your hands and wondering what the hell you've got yourself into. Then one little guy or gal, one day, does the proverbial spinning ball. You just know it's going to hit the deck, but then it pulls out of the roll in a split second and springs back to the kit, laughing at your mistrust. Your eyes light up, you grin like a big, daft kid and you then really appreciate what it's all about.
Mike, might I suggest you forget breeding this to that for now and just grimmace/enjoy the bit which comes beforehand.
Right now, I've had the benefit of watching just a handful of great spinners over the past few months. The rest are just average, but they're staying for now, as some might get better. But, the really good ones... well, I wouldn't like to lose them, so I've taken the step of putting them into my brand new breeding loft and I've told them to go fornicate.
I think what I'm trying to say, Mike, is that you'll answer most of your own questions simply by taking yourself throught the trials and tribulations of raising rollers. You, yourself, will observe the most important things, so it's you who will ultimately have most of the answers to your own questions. For the questions which are still puzzling you... well, then that's the time to start getting into the real detail.
At that point, a guy with your connections? - well, you could just ask the man upstairs. But, if he doesn't have all the answers, then you know where to look...
Happy new year, Mike.
Shaun
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John
5 posts
Dec 31, 2005
5:46 PM
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Shaun,
Mike's Reed birds have been flown out and proven. We are not talking about a young kit that needs to be flown out. These birds are ready to be bred and the breeding season is fast approaching, that's why the questions about breeding are asked.
That's the problem with some new flyers, they don't ask question and try to figure everything out on their own.I have no problem with anyone that wants to figure things out for him or her self.My only question would be,why walk into a dark room when there's a light on the wall? There no need to scuff your toes or bump your head, just to say you figured it out on your own. There are people out there that may be able to shed some light on someones dark path in rollers.
No you can't take the advice of every one and every thing that is mentioned may not fit your situation.you can use what you think that fits your situation as a tool that may help you in some way. If this person happens to be flying the same family of birds as me, would hold more weight for me.
Some of the things you mentioned above aren't a problem for this family of birds. I know because I fly some as well.
They start kitting after 3- 4 days of there first flight and kit like grapes from then on.They come in at about 4 - 7 months and I haven't seen a roll down yet. Some may get roll downs out them if they breed in a open loft, where you can be sure of the mother but not the father. This could be a problem if you have more then one family of birds breeding in a open loft.
John
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Fr.mike
47 posts
Jan 01, 2006
12:14 PM
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Thank you to all!I am so wired up that my wife thinks I have lost a few screws Lol!I check onthe birds at least three times a day !I dont think that one pigeon terd has time to dry out before it is scraped off!BTW--do you guys desinfect your srapers?--It just seems to me thatif the birds have caught something that you could spread it around as you scrape the pearches.--maybe I am just an overly paraniod newguy!Lol
Thanks again for all your Help
Mike
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motherlodelofts
518 posts
Jan 01, 2006
1:07 PM
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Mike here and there I will soak in in bleach, glad to see your excitment, that makes it fun.
Scott
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