rust never sleeps
4 posts
Jan 10, 2006
8:26 PM
|
Just somthing to think about: Higgins birds have been wining competition fly's for some time now at lease 10 years that i'v been this great hobby.I can count on both hands name breeders that have success. But who's wining with DON'S family,now i know Don is a three time champion no disrespect.But does someone know in there area Don's family of birds having any luck
|
motherlodelofts
534 posts
Jan 10, 2006
8:34 PM
|
Different type of bird , one is hot and one is not, personaly I like a family that isn't to hot.
One of Dons lines is Plona based , which is behind many fine lines.
Scott
|
nicksiders
341 posts
Jan 10, 2006
8:53 PM
|
It is difficult to control the hotter birds....not everyone has the skill nor the time. Don evidently has both the skill and time. Higgins birds are the perferred type by many more flyers.....they are more user friendly, maybe(LOL)
|
dave
54 posts
Jan 10, 2006
9:02 PM
|
I thought Higgins had the hotter family.
|
George Ruiz
83 posts
Jan 10, 2006
10:29 PM
|
Hey Richard
I have flown both family's and prefer the Higin's and heres what I bserved that was the differance as far as my training technics produced.
the Oulette family fly's faster and are more resistance to the roll I had to cut the feed back to get them lower and to roll more.
the Higgin's birds fly slower and lower and i only had to cut the corn out of the feed for them to explode in huge break's also they came into the spin a little earlier then the Ouletts
remember that I did not get the oullette birds dierect from him but from a freind in whittier you know him.
and the higgin's birds I got from a freind in Riverside as i dont have the kinda of cash that Higgin's birds cost.
also remember i am not the best trainer around I consider myself a novice and others with more training talent may get differant results than i did.
Thanks George
|
elopez
1056 posts
Apr 16, 2008
10:29 PM
|
Good info George. I personally like the Higgins line. Hope they work out for me with my London birds.
----------
Efren Lopez
SGVS
|
Mount Airy Lofts
674 posts
Apr 17, 2008
12:15 AM
|
I am currently flying some birds bred from Ouellette banded birds - or as some say F1s. Paired by Don's recommendations. They do tend to come in a little later say 7-12 months. Fly a little faster then normal but not bad. The ones I flew never really tail rid. Never really went thru any developmenting stages - went from flip to just rolling. These birds have control if you can wait for them to come in. They also only get faster as they age. My dislikes about the ones I am flying are their style of rolling. Straight 'A' framers. Some thing that I really like are their kit chemistry. Huge breaks! I can't see why any one wouldn't do good in the comp flies flying these birds. They possess concert performance!! Possess control!! Possess velocity!!
I must add that the ones I have originated from his Plona side.
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
|
quickspin
516 posts
Apr 17, 2008
7:45 AM
|
Why don't you like the A framers? or it was a joke? The A frame cuts through the air like a blade I like them.
----------
SALAS LOFT
|
Mount Airy Lofts
675 posts
Apr 17, 2008
10:59 AM
|
Don't know why but the wings flaring out on the bottom kills what ever else it does right. You are right about them cutting air. I think that is why they are so fast and so deep. Still doesn't hide the fact that their wings flared out. I have seen on a few occasions where the top part of their wings start to blur out. Tho you can still clearly tell that it was a 'A' framer with the bottom still showing some flaring.
Maybe it is just me but I'm not a 'A' frame fan. I suppose that is why I haven't bred out of them Ouellettes I am currently flying. This will be their third year in the air.
Any flaring of the wings isn't my cup of tea,
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
|
quickspin
517 posts
Apr 17, 2008
12:07 PM
|
Breed out of them and they produce H frame which I think it's bellow the A but seems well balance. Two blades cutting through the air with extreme speed that looks nice.
The only thing I don't like about the A Frame is the wing touch on top but not on the bottom. H frame doesn't touch either the top or the bottom but the stroke of the wings is equal which I think is well balance.
----------
SALAS LOFT
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2008 12:08 PM
|
Mount Airy Lofts
676 posts
Apr 17, 2008
12:57 PM
|
I have not seen that many very fast 'H'. The majority of the 'H' that I have seen are average in velocity. All tho this may be true, they still possess a smoothness to them that I would take over a very fast 'A'. A truly fast 'H' is a sight to see - Buzz Saw Blades.
I have never bred out of a 'A' framer. I would think the statement "breed more of the same" would hold true. Are you saying that if one breeds out of a 'A' framer, they would produce 'H' as well?
I think Dave Henderson is a fan of the 'A' framers. Maybe Joe Ubran can tell us if Dave breeds 'H' as well from his stock. I can see why you guys like them tho. The majority I have seen do possess high velocity. Cut air like a hot knife on butter - which makes them deeper in depth. Still any thing that flares their wings out bugs the heck out of me and will live their lives out in the kit box.
'H' don't flare. 'A' and wide or low 'X' do. I guess if velocity is all one cares for, they should do good in any style.
Interesting statement,
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2008 1:02 PM
|
Scott
360 posts
Apr 17, 2008
2:39 PM
|
I don't care for the wing flair at the bottom either although I do breed quite a few of them, it is rare that I see the wings on top just a flair at the bottom, not sure if I would call it an A style though.
The A where the wings touch on top are somewhat appealing to me but it is rare that I see them in my birds.
My favorite are fast H wingers with perfect balance where the wings look like straight lines, I find these hard to breed and find fast slightly off balance birds that show no wing when their condition is right easier to breed than what I just described above.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
JMUrbon
420 posts
Apr 17, 2008
7:58 PM
|
Thor I cant speak for Dave but I personally breed for A style birds but we all get H and X style birds. I just dont breed for them or from them. Nothing looks better to me than a fast well balanced A style roller except a hole kit of them. I can tell you that Dave does get birds other than A style out of his family of birds. As for Higgins or Oulette birds I think they have both done very well in competition. You rarely see somebody take a line of birds from somebody and be an overnite success. It takes alot of time and patience to build a competitive family of birds. It is easy to breed a good roller but to breed 20 of them takes time and these two have been doing it for years and years. Joe
----------
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2008 8:19 PM
|
Mount Airy Lofts
679 posts
Apr 17, 2008
11:41 PM
|
Joe,
I feel that flying great teams has more to do with where you live and the time one has vs any thing else. Both Higgin and Ouellette have proved their status for a long time now. If you get their birds and don't do good, it is probably not the birds ;)
My friend John flies a mix team of F1 Ouellettes last year. He did pretty well placing 4th in the 11 bird Fall Fly finals. I'm pretty sure he will be the guy to beat again this year in our region - 3 years straight. I might also add that his loss is nil to the preds - plus his birds are located at his place of work. Doesn't get any better than that :)
Just curious if a judge who dislikes flared wings would de grade super fast 'A' framers?
I like watching the velocity and depth of them 'A' framers, just can't get over the fact that their wings sticks out at the bottom. Maybe some day I'll see pass that. For now, they make good fliers.
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2008 11:52 PM
|
kcfirl
410 posts
Apr 18, 2008
2:08 PM
|
I think we are having a semantics problem with the term A frame. In both types, the wing tips come close to or appear to touch at the top. The difference is in how wide the the stroke at the bottom is.
Some A frames have a short stroke and don;t open the wings up much at all, I think these are the best, fastest, and smoothest. I believe this is what Joe is talking about when he says he breeds for A frame.
The other type which Thor dislikes and he describes as flaring their wings at the bottom of the stroke, are opening their wings much wider, up to or perhaps beyond 90 degrees from vertical. These birds could also be described as x wing or worse as well.
Regards,
Ken
|
Mount Airy Lofts
682 posts
Apr 18, 2008
2:45 PM
|
Never knew there were differences. I have only seen two types. The closed and the open. Closed meaning the tip actually touch on the up strokes. Open meaning it has a small but visible gap on the up strokes. Open 'A' or Closed 'A' as they say. Either way, a fast clean roll is a clean roll regardless of style.
Hmmm....
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
|
Bill C
91 posts
Apr 18, 2008
10:35 PM
|
Hey Rust never sleeps, I shouldn't be answering this post but I will give it my gut feeling. I know a guy in my area or out of my area but has been to my house that does very well with Oulette birds.
I think the answer to your question is simple. If you call up Higgins and ask for some squeakers he will tell you they are $350? for a pair of squeakers and how many would you like. Virtually anyone can buy his birds.
But if you call Oulette and ask for some squeakers he will probaly tell you he is not a pigeon factory and if he does not know you he will proably not raise extra squeakers just to sell them at top dollar.
It is great for a guy to share in his family of birds weather he sells some or gives some away. But Some birds are just not worth the money at such high prices.
I would also like to add that some of the best rolling kits I have seen in Northern California would never make the WC champ fly when they are going against large breaks of 10 foot birds with less velocity and quality. There is pros and cons to the big flys. I would rather have 5 birds break with speed, depth and qualtiy than 18 break at the same time with less veloctiy and depth.
I do not have the best, I am working hard to make some qualtiy rollers but not to win the World cup with short slow rollers. I am not saying Higgins birds are short and slow but I'll bet you there is a difference in the two strains. Bill C
|
Mount Airy Lofts
686 posts
Apr 18, 2008
11:20 PM
|
Bill,
Ouch! You can't blame the guy selling his birds. If he has birds to sell, it matter little to me how much he is selling them for as long as they are of quality. To me, if you can shell out 350 bucks for two squeekers, hey... your a better man then me. Personally my wife will not let me spend that much but hey, that just me. If you have the money, the sky is the limit.
If you recall the 350 dollar cock back in the days it would be equal to 4 times that right now.
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2008 11:24 PM
|
Bill C
93 posts
Apr 18, 2008
11:56 PM
|
Thor, I have to admit your right on this one. Supply and demand is what makes the bucks kind of like our gasoline prices huh. But that is the way it goes. I suppose that Jerry Higgins can get 20 calls a month from people who wants his birds and hey why not, it will aliminate the guys who really don't want them that bad. I am sure he also has given away many birds to his new guys in his area too. So I will admit I am wrong. But some of us see different things in a kit of rollers. Big breaks or fast rollers what gets your attention, we are not all the same and that is alright in most areas of life. I have flown many low depth to my liking in my birds from one fly to the next and have lacked quality too, but I am working on depth with qualtiy over each season and hope to always impove in the areas I like most and so we all get to work on what we think our birds need more of. Besides, Higgins told us how to get birds like his in his writting. He wanted more frequecny and bred for it from some stable freqent birds. I think a guy could read his words and get more out of them than from getting some of his birds even. Just like I tell people to read Pensoms book Tony sells. It's priceless to me. BIll C
|
Mount Airy Lofts
687 posts
Apr 19, 2008
12:11 AM
|
Pensom's book - the Birmingham Roller Pigeon... couldn't agree more. I really like the chapter about Flying. Had to re-read it many times before that chapter really kick in. A lot of detail information in just that one chapter.
To a great flying season,
Thor
----------
It's all about the friends we make :)
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2361 posts
Dec 19, 2008
8:59 AM
|
.
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|