RO
6 posts
Jan 14, 2006
7:45 PM
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I have read the rules on how they score the birds on 11 birds fly.I was wondering would that be a perfect fly for a waterfall type of kit?If im correct it's scored for each induvisual birds performance instead of the kits performance.Any insight would be apreciated.
yis
RO
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knaylor
40 posts
Jan 14, 2006
10:12 PM
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RO, that is patially true. It is also good for young very active kits that dont or cant put together 5 plus bird breaks. Kevin
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
641 posts
Jan 15, 2006
4:12 AM
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Ro. It is perfect for the 11 bird fly.Like you said the 11 bird fly is based on the individual roller's performance.The 20 bird fly is based on team work.If you want to enjoy the roll to watch the 11 bird fly is great.If you want to see a bunch of confusion and try to pick out the birds that are rolling properly from the ones that aren,t then the 20 bird fly is great.
Myself I love the 11 bird fly.I am more into each roller and I like to watch the deeper roll.A deep roller of 40 feet will hurt you in the 20 bird kit unless there is 5 or more that go at the same time.
Don,t let anyone kid you into thinking the 11 bird fly is easy.It is harder than most think.The 11 bird fly is increasing more each year.If you have a kit that is waterfalling you are on your way to a good kit to compete with this Fall.David
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ranger632
11 posts
Jan 15, 2006
6:20 AM
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Whats waterfalling??
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fhtfire
296 posts
Jan 15, 2006
9:06 AM
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A break is when 5 or more birds start to roll at almost the exact same time. It is like the kit hits a wall and explodes. Now a water fall break is when a couple birds hit the roll and then a second later...3 more hit the roll and a couple more hit the roll....Waterfalling is not scorable. There is a video of a kit waterfalling on rollerdigest.com. Look in the video section..it will say waterfalling.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
644 posts
Jan 15, 2006
9:50 AM
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Paul.Isn,t waterfalling scoreable in the 11 bird fly? David
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fhtfire
297 posts
Jan 15, 2006
10:14 AM
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David,
I do not fly the eleven birds...so I really have no idea...I am sure that it is in the 11 bird, due to the fact it is more for judging individual rollers. Maybe, I should look it up...becuase I may fly an 11 bird team just for the heck of it at the next fall fly.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
645 posts
Jan 15, 2006
11:30 AM
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Paul.I think you will like it.It is different than the 20 bird fly thats for sure.I am trying to get a 20 bird kit together for my first time for the W/C this Spring.I can,t tell what is what with that many birds rolling at the same time.I will let the judge figure that out.LOL. David
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motherlodelofts
558 posts
Jan 15, 2006
2:38 PM
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Ro the differnce between the 11 bird fly and twenty bird fly is that with the 11 birds each roll is counted and bonus points are awarded for qaulity and or depth.
With the twenty bird 5 or more must go at the same time , in other words break together , this is a natural reaction with the breed and is also accomplished more so through selection, and breeding , contrary to what some that do not know better , a "good" solid team will roll with depth and 40 plus ft is not unrealistic at all with good birds that have the heart to handle it, these large flys aren't being won with kits of short birds.
The kit is also awarded bonus for qaulity and depth.
Hope this helps.
Scott
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Mongrel Lofts
108 posts
Jan 16, 2006
12:07 AM
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RO,
I was the champion in the NBRC 11 bird fly in 2004. I don't fly 11 birdsat my house and I don't train 11 birds getting ready for a fly.. I fly 20 birds and just pick 11 birds the day of the fly.. Same birds same quality I fly in the 20 bird kit,, The problem I see with judging the 11 bird fly and I seen more than one judge do thishere .. You have to judge each bird, on depth and quality of roll.. Now when 5 to 11 bird go at one time, the judge is trying ot count how deep each bird was and the quality of each bird rolling. The judge will be calling out, 4 ones, 2 three's 1 four, 5 ones, 6 two's,, and then trying to asign bonus points for xtra depth and speed on some. it is redicules really trying to keep up with a good team in the 11 bird fly. I scored 408 pts when I won the 11 bird National and feel many rolls had to be passed on, as the action was fast and furious.. In the 20 bird fly, the judge is estimating the over all quality of the breaks and birds in the breaks,, Not trying to tell you exactly how deep and how fast each individual is in each roll with up to 11 birds rolling at one time.. If you see a truly good team of rollers judged in the 11 bird,, you will think, man I wouldn't want to be the judge!! LOL I hope this helps,, Mongrel Lofts
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
646 posts
Jan 16, 2006
4:38 AM
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Kenny.Your 11 bird win with 408 points set the standard for all of us to try and reach.I would have loved to have seen the kit working.A Master Flyer and his rollers.I don,t think anyone will reach that mark soon.But me and my Mutts are coming after it.LOL.
I also agree that in the 11 bird fly some rolls get missed.It is something that happens the same as things happen in the 20 bird fly.I think in both flys when 5 or more birds go at the same time all the judge can do is call what he sees.When Dale Harshman judged my first fly I was in awe.I soon learned to respect what a judge has to do.If I was judging(which I never will)and a big break happened in the 11 bird fly I would have to judge on the average.Any deep birds would have to be scored the same as the majority.And I feel that most judges does it this way.I judge my kits every day I fly.All I do is count the scorable rolls.If I don't get a 100+ scorable rolls out of an 11 bird kit I am unhappy.
As I said before I am trying to put a good kit of 20 together for the W/C but I can't see what all is happening when they break.My eyes want to keep following the deeper rollers and I miss what the shorter rollers are doing.Maybe in time.As of now I still perfer to see a smaller kit of birds in action.Just a much more pleasurable sight to see.I love the Waterfall action or as I refer to them as a Yo Yo. David
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