|
The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
True Polygamy - The Three-Hen Method
True Polygamy - The Three-Hen Method
Page:
1
Shaun
253 posts
Jan 20, 2006
10:33 AM
|
I knew I'd seen it somewhere. A few months ago I asked if anyone knew of a polygamy method which didn't necessarily mean removing the eggs from the hens and getting fosters to sit and raise the young - instead, the various hens would do it themselves. At the time I just couldn't remember the article I'd read, which clearly stated that the idea was to get the one cock to do the biz with a number of hens and they would all go on to sit the eggs, then collectively rear the young. It seems somewhat unlikely from everything else I've read and observed myself - but, now, whilst reading Kowalski's book again, bingo, I've found it. He refers to a racing pigeon guy who used the method for three years with great success.
The principle is that a good sized loft about 6' wide, 4' deep and 6' high is given over to one cock and three hens. Three nest shelves are mounted, one above the other, on one wall. There are certain provisos to observe but, essentially, the cock will be accepted by all three hens (four, apparently, is too many). After mating, each hen chooses one of the nest shelves. The cock flits from one to the other doing his stuff. When all eggs are laid, the cock will in all likelihood, sit on one of the nests. But - and here's the important part - the other hens will sit on their nests full-time (though you could still remove the eggs for fostering, should you prefer).
For someone, like me, who has a surplus of hens which I'd like to get in on the breeding act, sooner rather than later, this technique certainly appeals. I still have reservations, though. Assuming the mere continued presence of the cock in the loft (probably sitting only one hen's eggs) is enough to ensure the other two hens sit their eggs alone, it's the subsequent feeding which concerns me. From what I've observed so far, my cocks do the lion's share of the feeding. Is it likely that the hens will sit the eggs alone, then feed the youngsters alone? I suppose the cock might lend a hand (or crop!) - but with a possible six youngsters to cope with each round? That would knacker him. Given that Kowalaski's plan is that the cock is used repeatedly to churn out lots of youngsters, potentially month after month, it seems to point to the respective hens doing the sitting and then the feeding.
Actually, Kowalski doesn't elaborate on the feeding part, commenting thus: "At this stage (after laying), all the eggs can be transferred to feeder pairs. Or the three hens and the cock can be allowed to incubate and raise the youngsters. If you choose the latter method, you can have six youngsters each month from the three hens ... all sired by the one outstanding cock. If you switch the eggs, you can quickly breed several youngsters from one cock each month and test many different matings".
Kowalski confidently refers to this as true polygamy.
I'm not so bothered about using one outstanding cock (simply because it's too early for me to have established one!); it's more a case of using just one of my cocks to get the surplus hens to produce a few more youngsters for me to fly out. This polygamy method certainly seems better than having to wait to split up pairs, so as to bring in the spare hens for their turn at breeding.
Has anyone tried this method, or are you going to make me do it first and fall about laughing when it doesn't work?
Shaun
Last Edited by Shaun on Jan 20, 2006 10:34 AM
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
664 posts
Jan 20, 2006
11:12 AM
|
O.K. Shaun.I am getting caught up with everything.LOL.
On the 3 hen to one cock method I have yet to try 3.Except for my 8 to 1 method and fostering all the eggs.However in some of my project work I have cages that are approx. 3 feet x 3 feet with a nest box on the floor and one higher up above the other.You probably could have them on opposite sides too.I use 2 hens to one cock with this setup.They seem happy together and I have seen the cock sitting on both nest.How long he sits I never bothered to watch.He does feed both sets of young.If I have fosters for them I use them but if not I let them raise their own.I don,t see why 3 wouldn,t work in a bigger pen if you have the space.As far as being hard on the cock I wouldn't even worry about that.I have Cocks in my open loft that I have seen feed 6 to 9 different young before taking a break.One cock that is his whole thing in being there.I seldom use him to breed from.I am sure someone more experienced than me can enlighten you on this type of breeding.David
|
birdman
114 posts
Jan 20, 2006
11:25 AM
|
Shaun,
I have all of my hens separated from the cocks when I'm not breeding. If you have yours separated as well then you may have already noticed that the hens will mate up with each other and lay eggs.
Sometimes it's easier to let the cock breed with one of the mated hens in a separate cage, put the hen back in the hen loft, and let the hens both raise the youngsters. They will share in the feeding and the squabs will turn out nice. Then, after a few rounds you can let the cock mate with the other hens in the group. Both hens will lay eggs but you can discard the ones that aren't fertile. If you've got three or four pair of extra hens then you should be able to turn out a good number of birds in reasonable time.
Or, if it doesn't matter to you, because the birds are all one family, you can let the cock mate with as many hens as he wants to in the hen loft and then remove him and let the hens do their thing. However, if you choose the latter method, and you get a some really nice spinning birds, the actual mother might be in question unless you are positive about identifying her.
Good Luck,
Russ
|
Shaun
255 posts
Jan 20, 2006
11:27 AM
|
That's very interesting, David - I've not seen you mention that before, about the one cock with two hens and possibly not fostering. I keep reading how raising young really takes it out of the pairs, so we should give them a break during the breeding season - and that's just with two youngsters at a time. I, therefore, imagined that having to cope with more than two squabs and the cock might really take it out of him. Clearly not.
What I was thinking is this: I've got eight pairs together plus six spare hens in a different loft. I thought I'd take one of the cocks after he's finished with his first round, put him in the other loft with three of the spare hens and see how we go. If that's successful, I can then swap for the other three hens. I could keep the same cock or swap with another.
I suppose if it didn't work, I could simply put the cock back with his first hen and let them carry on breeding. Nothing to lose, really.
Shaun
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
665 posts
Jan 20, 2006
1:14 PM
|
Shaun.You don,t have to wait untill after he is done raising his round.When he is not sitting eggs or feeding young at feed time he is just marking time.This down time you can put him with your extra hens for a few hours each day and you could also let him with them overnight a few times.He will jump the hens within minutes usually and his job is done with that hen for several days.I like to be sure he hits the hen again around the 5th day after the first mating.Then let him continue on raising his own.David
|
Shaun
256 posts
Jan 20, 2006
1:43 PM
|
David, this begs all sorts of questions. Do bear with me. Last year, I tried to settle a pair which had been flown out at a different loft. I imagined that if they were sitting eggs, they were less likely to do a runner. Well, the cock couldn't get away quick enough as soon as the loft door was opened, so that theory went up in smoke. The hen stayed and she sat the eggs another day. But, once she could see 'hubby' wasn't coming back, she deserted them. So, I've since been wary of doing anything which involves a pairing up, with the cock then being out of the picture for whatever reason, thus risking desertion. What you've just described sounds great - I could give that a whirl tomorrow. But, this is where I start to imagine all sorts going wrong. First, if I pull the cock from his own nestbox, during his time off the nest, have you ever come across a hen which, when she notices the old man is gone (especially as you mention possibly overnight), she leaves the eggs?
Let's assume that removing the cock for a few hours here and there, isn't going to risk the incubation of his own eggs. So, now we take him from his loft, then stick him with three strange hens. He's a cock, so he won't mind playing away from homw. Let's suppose the hens are willing and they all get it together and we repeat the process to ensure fertilisation around the 5th day. That I fully understand.
Where I see it unravelling, is when the eggs are laid. I was just about able to imagine three hens sharing one cock, when he's around with them all the time - but when he's only there for a few hours here and there? Is that really enough to keep three lots of hens sitting tightly on their eggs? Do they have enough incentive to sit 24 hours a day for 18 days, then feed the youngsters on their own for another few weeks?
I would hate to get half way through and watch six eggs - or worse still - six squabs, being deserted. Yes, if I could see that happening, I could quickly shove him back in the six hen loft... but then the damage might already have been done and the hens might not go back to what they've deserted.
Whaddya reckon?
Shaun
|
Velo99
194 posts
Jan 20, 2006
1:44 PM
|
Shaun ,
I am using a similar method. The easiest way to insure the cocks get in on the act is to add a "foster" cock after the hens have been had by the primary cock.
Box your hens. Let the primary cock in the loft where all of the hens can see him. He will hang on the cage fronts and do his best to get down to business. The hens will respond in kind. Leave him in this condition for a day or two.On a weekend first thing in the morning. Put the cock in with a hen, it should be fast and furious. Pull him out and give him a 30 minutes to recupe. Put him in the second box. Continue in this way till all of the hens are serviced.The next day do it again in the opposite order.
On Monday pair the hens with a foster cock and lock em up for a couple of days.The cocks will not know it is not their eggs or care for that matter. 18 days later when they are ready to remate. Place the primary cock in the box, isolated from the hen but where she can see him. She will make advances to him. When the foster cock is on the nest put her in with the primary cock let them mate. You may have to box the foster cock to keep him on the nest. If you have a solid slider so he can`t see it will work better.
Kind of a pain but it will work. You have to be on top of it when the remate time comes. It might behoove you to use a quality foster cock just in case. All of your birds will be half sibs. :)
YITS
V99
|
Shaun
257 posts
Jan 20, 2006
1:55 PM
|
Kenny, I can see how that would work, but for me there's a main stumbling block - I don't have any spare cocks. All my Masons are now paired up and most are on eggs. I've got three pairs of fosters, but I'm giving them some Mason eggs to sit, so I can pump out a few more from the main pairs.
With six spare hens, I feel it's worth a chance pulling one cock away from his main job and giving him some part-time employment!
I'm also stuck for nest boxes, as they're all taken. That's why I quite liked the idea of just fitting some shelves into the spare loft, tossing the cock in with the hens and letting them all do it naturally, without me having to interfere too much.
Shaun
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
666 posts
Jan 20, 2006
1:55 PM
|
Shaun.I was refering to what Russ said about pairing 2 hens together.I should have included that in what I was saying.It is another way to have all your birds working.I never trust a single hen to sit her eggs altho I do have one that finished raising a round last year on her own.David
P.S.Do you have any cocks in your kit box you could spare to use with your hens as fosters for a round?
Last Edited by Bluesman on Jan 20, 2006 1:58 PM
|
Shaun
258 posts
Jan 20, 2006
2:07 PM
|
Russ, for the purposes of this experiment, I wouldn't be overly bothered about who the mother was. In an ideal world, I'd like to be precise as to parentage, but I may not have that luxury. They're a highly inbred family, so I'm not too fussed at this stage. The idea is to fly out the offspring and look to the best in the air as future breeders.
However, you raise some interesting points. No, I haven't seen any of my hens trying to pair up and there have been no eggs from them.
But, what you say about the hens all mucking in - well, that's a new one on me and I'd be glad for it to happen. Going back to the original scenario, if I stick the cock in with three hens and let them do their stuff, the beauty of that is I will know who all the parents are and, again, all the offspring will be half sibs.
But, would you think that the hens will sit the eggs, given that a) there's only one cock and b) he might not be around all that often?
Shaun
|
birdman
115 posts
Jan 20, 2006
3:18 PM
|
Shaun,
I have a friend who used the original method with 3 hens and one cock but there were a few issues and he changed to two hens on one cock.
One of the problems with the 3to1 method was that the cock would get 'fixed' on one particular hen most of the time, and her eggs would be fertile, but not always so for the other two hens. Even though it worked much better when he removed one of the hens,the cock always seem fixated on one hen more than the other. Also, not all eggs from the lesser hen were fertile
Another problem was the nesting boxes. At first they were stacked on top of each other but he later changed that setup and mounted them where all the birds could see each other at all times, across from each other, or side by side from each other. The lesser hen seemed to be more comfortable sitting on eggs by herself as long as she could have visual contact with the cock. When the nests were stacked on top of each other, the lesser hen would look for the cock, abandon her eggs, and wind up in the other hens nest and a fight would break out.
Whatever method you choose will work. Some, better than others I suppose. Try them all til you find the method you like best.
Plan your work, and then work your plan.
Russ
Oh, I forgot to mention, I've found that 'widowhood' boxes work great for the 'mated hens' type of breeding. If you have three mated pairs of females in one loft but only want to mate 3 of them to the cock, you can lock the other hens up while the cock takes care of his business. Then remove the cock, unlock the boxes, and repeat for the next 5 or six days. Works great!
Last Edited by birdman on Jan 20, 2006 3:35 PM
|
Velo99
195 posts
Jan 20, 2006
4:51 PM
|
I keep letting the cock tread her til she starts sitting the nest. After that he can move on to greener pastures.
V99
|
J_Star
195 posts
Jan 21, 2006
7:40 AM
|
I was going to write an article for Tony's site called 'The Many Ways to Successful Polygamy'. Is there any takers to write this article since I have written 13 articles so far for Tony to post on his site. I wish not to hog all the good topics. Thanks.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jan 21, 2006 7:41 AM
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
667 posts
Jan 21, 2006
7:58 AM
|
Jay.You are doing a good job and I would love to read what you wrote about it.My opinion,David
|
Post a Message
|
|
|