Safire
10 posts
Feb 09, 2006
2:08 PM
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This is a questioned probably aready asked, but what is a stiff bird?
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nicksiders
441 posts
Feb 09, 2006
2:51 PM
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A stiff bird is one that does not roll or does not have the frequency needed nor the depth.............basically just flys.
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Double D
122 posts
Feb 09, 2006
7:18 PM
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Ya, and if he's really stiff, he's probably not breathing. Sorry, couldn't resist!
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knaylor
59 posts
Feb 13, 2006
11:37 AM
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I usually do not stock a bird that is only 10 feet. I would only consider stocking that bird if it was a cock and needed to add freqency to my birds. Kevin
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nicksiders
455 posts
Feb 13, 2006
5:53 PM
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I would not stock a bird who only does 10 feet. The first thing you loose is depth and I think you can "feed" frequency.
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Safire
26 posts
Feb 14, 2006
2:29 PM
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If you have a pair that both roll 15ft only, can they breed deeper youngs?
Last Edited by Safire on Feb 14, 2006 2:29 PM
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nicksiders
456 posts
Feb 14, 2006
3:30 PM
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Possibily......I know that my answer is vague, but the genetics thing can be wierd. I have breed 30 footers together and got junk and I have breed 10 footer with a 20 footer and got 30 footers...................but generally if you breed 15 footers together you will get 15 footers.
10 foot scores and there are other things to consider. Do they kit close; is their roll done with great style; is the velocity top rate; and how often do they put it all together with the team. You do the things that please you; develope your plan and stick with it. Keep your plan neat and simple.
40 foot rolls ain't worth a damn with a bunch of wing switching and sloppiness or they are constant out birds.
This is just my opinion only. Weigh everybody elses opinion and take what is feasible to you. Stay focussed on your own goals. If your not careful you will be pulled in 20 different directions and never meet your own goals.
My birds have never been as good as I want them to be and there has been days I want to cull them all....LOL
You need to listen intently to people like Kenny Billings and Scott Campbell. They are often in this site and thier birds are consistant performers. There are a reason why they compete well and it is all about management. There are others, but I don't know thier names beyond thier site signatures. Kenny's is Mongrol Lofts (I think recently it has been Know It All Blowhard - Am I right Kenny?) and Scott's is Motherlode. I probably have pissed them off pointing them out, but what the hell I am a lot older then they and they won't hurt me (I don't think?)....LOL.
That's my 50 cent worth........I'm gone
Last Edited by nicksiders on Feb 14, 2006 3:50 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
103 posts
Feb 14, 2006
10:58 PM
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My stiff birds then to be from my Blue Side of the family. I was told that it is a common thing from the get go 30 so years ago.
My frequent birds will be from my Grizzle side of the same family. I too was told this was a common thing from the get go.
Now, I find that the Grizzle side are also on the shallower side. Birds going about 15'. These birds will roll about 3 or more times in a minute. With average velocity and a good one every now and then.
The Blue side is more on the dangerous/hot side. These birds on the normal would roll in the 25' plus. The velocity is as good as they come but the frequency seems to not be there. I would consider them stiff going only about once every 2 to 3 minutes. Anything that only rolls once every 5 minutes is a plain out stiff and would not be considered stock material in my books. Once in two minutes is stiff but managable and I would consider such a bird.
Now depth is in the eye of the beholder but I know that in the past, birds which are on the shallower side mated to a deeper one will produce the ideal depth - 20'. I truly believe in the back ground of the bird more then the bird itself. For example, if I know that the parents which bred this shallower bird held extremely good depth (40 feet) then I would go ahead and use such a bird if it was something I needed. Altho if the same shallow bird's parents where from tumbler type performance, I would never consider such birds.
I believe in every bird has their duty in the Stock loft or Kit box.
There are too many unknown factors in the question. It all depends if the bird met your ideal. If this shallow roller was your best bird, then shoot away.
I don't need such a shallow roller in my program but I know many who would. I would only consider a bird if it had the ideal depth 20 plus feet. It would also have to meet the other aspects like velocity, control, kitting and smarts.
If we all just use the best we have, we should be in good shape. Never worry about culling a inferior breeder. The buck stops in the breeding loft.
Just my opinion,
Thor
P.S. My best results have been mating my grizzle side with the Blue side.
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Velo99
225 posts
Feb 15, 2006
4:59 AM
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I have to agree on the mating, I have a blue spread hen bred to a griz cock who throws some nice 20-30 footers. Only thing is they are just a bit stiff. Manageble as it was stated. I switched cocks this year to a red bar that gave me rolldowns with a griz hen. I am thinking this could be a nice mating.
yits
V99
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