Mongrel Lofts
141 posts
Feb 26, 2006
8:22 AM
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Personally, if you have a solid, stable family (in the true sense of the word), every bird, regardless of what it does in the air has the same potential to produce high quality birds within that family. I also beleive that, even the worst Roller within a family should have at least an opportunity on the stock loft.
That last sentence, Is Mind Boggling to me!!! I guess with this type thinking, anything in the loft could be sold as a potential great breeder with a clear conscience.. Be careful out there guys, Some people really think like this.. Do you?? Is this a breeding practice that one should use to breed better rollers? I wonder what kind of shape the breed would be in, if all Roller breeders stocked birds based on this paragraph.. CHING GOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mongrel Lofts
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Swamp Fox
24 posts
Feb 26, 2006
8:28 AM
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I still believe in best to best within the family. Many years of experience by the best Birmingham roller fanciers tell us this. I'm afraid if you went by that last sentence, that doom would be imminent. I will never personally know!!
Marion
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Slobberknocker
80 posts
Feb 26, 2006
9:42 AM
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Kenny,
Please refer to the following at the top of where you copied your post:
Notice to all visitors and members: All subject matter contained on this site is considered property of the NPRA and copyrighted NPRA. Any usage of this material off of this site without the expressed written consent of the NPRA Board of Directors will be considered copyright infringement and subject to prosecution.
Consider yourself warned.
Bob
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Dave Szab
21 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:07 AM
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Hey Kenny,
Now you've done it. Looks like you'll be going to the big house for a long time. The judge is going to throw the book at you! LOL.
Dave
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Mongrel Lofts
142 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:23 AM
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Hey Bob,
There was no mention of your site or you.. I don't understand why you would not want members of the roller fraternity to discus if your methods of breeding are good for the breed or not. No one had to know it was you that believed in breeding from the worst of culls,, That all rollers no matter what kind of cull deserved a try in your stock loft..As long as they were from a solid family..
I just thought it was a good topic to discuss for the new fancier and old alike.. Is your method of breeding even the worst cull rollers, good for the breed?? You know, the one you mentioned, now that you let the cat out of the bag who wrote the post and where it was from..
Bob, I think if your ashamed of your belief and practice, you should not put it on the world wide web for all to read,, then get pissy if someone thinks you make a point worth discussing.. Don't you?
Bob, anything I write on any list, I'm fine with you using as a topic on your color page.. Why, because what I write about breeding rollers is what I believe and I hope other roller men are discussing that practice.. Why don't you want these guys or the whole roller sport talking about your breeding practices and beliefs? I don't get it!
Bob, its odd that you write these ridicules things about breeding rollers like your in the closet and then post them on the web, and don't want others talking about them.. Again I ask why? Mongrel Lofts
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Slobberknocker
81 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:35 AM
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Kenny,
It is fine to talk about it, that is why I posted it on OUR forum. If I wanted it discussed here, I would have posted it here.
Again, DO NOT copy from my site or the NPRA forum in order to post elsewhere. Thank you for your continued support.
Bob
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661roller
6 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:41 AM
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Kenny,
My take on that paragragh is that someone was saying any bird from a great family MIGHT have the goods to produce great rollers and he would not refuse the bird a chance to prove itselve in the loft. It is quite a leap to say the guy was advocating breeding strictly from junk and selling them as good stuff.
What other site are you guys talking about?
Jim
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Slobberknocker
82 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:46 AM
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Jim,
If you will email me privately at mcguan@charter.net I will provide you with that information. In order to respect Tony's posting policy, I will not provide the link here.
Bob
Last Edited by Slobberknocker on Feb 26, 2006 10:49 AM
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Mongrel Lofts
143 posts
Feb 26, 2006
10:58 AM
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Hi Jim,
So your take of this point of view is not what is said, but what is meant you think? That is the good part, discussion,, I read this sentance to mean, all birds no mater how bad deserve a chance in the stock loft, if you think the family is good.
((I also beleive that, even the worst Roller within a family should have at least an opportunity on the stock loft.))
Thanks Jim but I couldn't disagree with promoting this metod more,, Just my opinion.. Mongrel Lofts
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
504 posts
Feb 26, 2006
11:10 AM
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"Kenny,
Please refer to the following at the top of where you copied your post:
Notice to all visitors and members: All subject matter contained on this site is considered property of the NPRA and copyrighted NPRA. Any usage of this material off of this site without the expressed written consent of the NPRA Board of Directors will be considered copyright infringement and subject to prosecution.
Consider yourself warned.
Bob"
=============
Hey Bob, please lookup the meaning of "Fair Use". Essentially any work can be quoted in part to make a point, express an opinion, make discussion or whatever by the person quoting it.
However, for example, someone cannot make an entire copy of an article and post it on a website without permission of the copyright holder. This would be construed as copyright infringment.
To all posters, ignore the "warning post" above, it does not apply to how Mongrel Lofts used the piece from another site.
----------------------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Feb 26, 2006 4:50 PM
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Shaun
295 posts
Feb 26, 2006
11:24 AM
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Copyright can be a grey area, but when users post to largely public forums, it's surely unrealistic to assert that no-one should then quote from the threads. Indeed, the NBRC journal regularly includes extracts from lists such as Tony's and Earl's.
That said, it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect the source to be acknowledged when reproducing a particular quote or extract.
Shaun
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Mongrel Lofts
144 posts
Feb 26, 2006
11:50 AM
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Hi Shaun,
Goop point.. I didn't want to talk about Bob or his list figuring he would rather I not mention him.. I never considered the idea he might feel left out if I didn't give him credit for his breeding method. I just thought we all should talk about the bad method and idea of breeding from culls just because they are from any certian family..In my opinion..
Bob, is it ok with you, if we give you credit for your idea's when bringing a topic up on this list or any other list? Mongrel lofts
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Mongrel Lofts
145 posts
Feb 26, 2006
11:58 AM
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for the insight.. I'm easily intimidated! LOL I will try to be respectful, but some things really do need light shed on them.. I think the practice of breeding from culls and thinking every bird bred deserves a shot in the stock loft,, Is worthy of talking about.
Hey, I hear you have talked to my old Friend Ray Sanchez. Ray was the first big name I ever met in pigeons.. I met Ray when I was in the 2nd grade! Man, how time flys.. How far from Ray do you live? Do you or are you closed enough to fly in the local club he was telling me about the other day?
Tony, I know I mentioned this before, but you and my wife share the same last name. That name is not all that common.. Sure makes me wonder.. Do you have any family in Texas?
Thanks again for your honest straightforward running of this site..You run a tight ship, but don't practice censorship,, Pretty cool.. I try my best to get others over here also.. Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Feb 26, 2006 12:05 PM
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Slobberknocker
83 posts
Feb 26, 2006
12:11 PM
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Kenny,
I would prefer you not quote me unless you include the whole quote. What I meant by what I said is that POTENTIALLY even the worst bird you raise could be a good stock bird. This applies to any established family of birds.
Suppose your very best breeding pair produced a bird that was no good to you. It would still have the POTENTIAL to be a good stock bird, right?
Thant is what I meant. Jim pretty much said it in his post.
I do not agree with mixing birds from many families because of the unpredictability. I was just thinking that there are POSSIBLY some good breeders being culled within many top families.
Bob
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Fr.mike
76 posts
Feb 26, 2006
1:44 PM
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Hey slobber--Sounds like sour grapes to me.Take a breather--Its just birds no need to get all legal-and defensive-you write what you like others write what they like.just ROLL with it--It makes no eternal difference Does It?
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fhtfire
346 posts
Feb 26, 2006
3:49 PM
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Every bird has potential to produce a Champion if it from a tight knit family. But the odds of getting good offspring from a good roller are higher then breeding from a retard. A cull is a cull and that is that. They are culled because they have an "issue" that is not good enough to make the team. If they do not make the cut...then there is a reason for it. Why possibly bring that bad trate to the breeder loft. It does not hurt to try something...that is true. Of course if you have the space and the time. I myself....did not even pick a stock pair last year...I had some damn good birds and people have been to my house to see them....but none of them turned my crank. I finally pulled my 04 cock...because he was a superstar and held it together for almost 2 years. I pulled an early 05 hen to put on that cock...she had flown a tad over a year and has not missed a beat. So I put those two together. Would I put the nest mate to my 05 hen that is 15'-25' not as tight....not as deep....does not snap out as hard....ect to that cock...NOPE...it does not show me the goods......same parents....yes...but something is off in the gene pool....Could it produce good birds....maybe..but I would rather waste the time and energy on the higher % . There is a fault for a reason. I have bred enough livestock and birds in my time to know...that if there is a fault..you do not breed from it...PERIOD!! Anyway...everyone is free to do what they want in there own lofts...and you if you have the time and the space to try cull pairings...then that is fine. Culls are Culls for a reason...they lack the magic! Anyway...the best birds should hit the stock loft. Get 3-4 rounds fly them out and see if they are good.
rock and ROLL
paul
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motherlodelofts
615 posts
Feb 26, 2006
8:55 PM
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I would prefer you not quote me unless you include the whole quote. What I meant by what I said is that POTENTIALLY even the worst bird you raise could be a good stock bird. This applies to any established family of birds.
Suppose your very best breeding pair produced a bird that was no good to you. It would still have the POTENTIAL to be a good stock bird, right?
Thant is what I meant. Jim pretty much said it in his post.
I do not agree with mixing birds from many families because of the unpredictability. I was just thinking that there are POSSIBLY some good breeders being culled within many top families.
Bob
Bob I know that you asked Kenny but I'll take a stab at it.
I am looking for the best way to word this where it makes sence , first the answer is "no" to all of these but with a but , if you know your birds and most importantly particular pairs then particular birds that weren't the greatest in the air could have potential in stock. everyone of them ? no way ,but there can be one here and there but you must know what you are looking for and you must know in detail it's parents and what they produce.
Generally I want them to show me what they are made of and I find these to make my best breeders and the way to move forward, but on the same hand there are some that are good in the air that I won't breed out of due to looking to weak in charactor ect.
My best pairs will breed culls that I won't even give away, the odd one that wasn't the best in the air and might have potential is an exception not the rule.
Breeding qaulity birds is a far cry from the crap shoot that some of you think it is.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Feb 26, 2006 9:05 PM
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Steve S.
75 posts
Feb 26, 2006
9:27 PM
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Mongrel,
The read I get from this first paragraph is that a person practiceing this type of breeding is implying it to say every bird I have is a champion and if you purchase one of mine requardless of bird it will breed you more champions.
O course every good roller breeder know this is bunk.
Profit could only be the bottom line,,,,A sales pitch.
later,
Steve
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motherlodelofts
625 posts
Mar 04, 2006
4:09 PM
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By the way Bob, what kind of pigeon is that Mosiac that you post , and that bird you call a Pencil ?
Scott
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