Dark Roll
4 posts
Mar 24, 2006
10:14 AM
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I've got a 4 month old Roller(Ray Sanchez family) that just rolls way too much and will land early. Should I cull him now
or give him more time to correct this problem?
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rust never sleeps
41 posts
Mar 24, 2006
10:38 AM
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Drak roll! give that bird some time and a little more feed. Keep an eye on that pigeon, could turn out to be a fine roller?
Last Edited by rust never sleeps on Mar 24, 2006 10:38 AM
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Bundee
11 posts
Mar 24, 2006
11:31 AM
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be patient dark roll give the bird a chance to develop,Bundee.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
546 posts
Mar 24, 2006
11:49 AM
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Hey All, if Dark Roll continues to work with this particular bird, and it keeps landing early, even while feeding it up, won’t it not develop a habit of landing early? Won’t this influence other birds to come in early to land? Or is there something he can do to prevent that from happening?
I have a young bird team that until recently had a young hen landing on my house roof after a couple circles. Once I would shoo her from there she would circle a few more times and back to the roof.
Her low flying would pull some of the other young birds down with her, they responded to my attempts to flag them up by not landing but they would still fly low, but she would not.
She is a very healthy bird, but I waited too long to get her into the air and her training has been a pain in the rear. My fault.
This repeated for about 4 days. I finally gave up on her and pulled her from the team, she will become foster material down the road. But guess what? The other young birds have not even tried to fly low and have taken to flying higher and longer without her influence on them.
Unless someone has a solution for this, I would recommend that Dark Roll cull the bird as the negative influence of this bird may develop bad habits in the other birds in his kit.
What do you think?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Mar 24, 2006 11:51 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
702 posts
Mar 24, 2006
12:25 PM
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Tony.There is a difference in the 2 birds.Dark roll's bird is landing early because it is working.Yours was landing because it was either lazy or overfed.
There is solutions to both cases.David
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Shaun
311 posts
Mar 24, 2006
12:40 PM
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I nodded along with the earlier posts about giving the bird a chance then, with Tony's bit, something clicked: I had exactly the same problem last year. It was one of my first ever bred, so sentimentality kept me from getting rid of it. It came into the roll quickly - too quickly it seemed. It always rolled from the back of the kit, distracting the others. Then it would land, all too early - probably knackered with all the effort. It would sit in a tree near the loft and the others would then try to land beside it, and I'd have to chase them back up. I couldn't cull it because, being one of the first bred, it had been named 'Milky' by my two children. They thought it was fun watching it roll at the back of the kit from their bedroom window. They told me off for complaining that it landed early. They sternly informed me that as it was rolling the most, it deserved a rest and so it should rightly land before the others.
Thinking back, what a bloody pain it was. A happy ending, though - Milky was about 4 months old when I sadly told the kids that he had flown away...
Shaun
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Bundee
12 posts
Mar 24, 2006
12:45 PM
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What do you think Dark roll is the bird tired or lazy at the end make the best decision for all your birds!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
548 posts
Mar 24, 2006
1:55 PM
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Hey David, I wasn't looking for why my bird was landing. I know why. I was asking what is the impact on the other birds in the kit? How many times does Dark Roll's bird have to land early before it has a new habit? How many times before the other birds pickup that bad habit too?
That's what I was asking. LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
703 posts
Mar 24, 2006
2:14 PM
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Tony.That is why it is up to Dark Roll as the handler to determine why this roller at 4 month is rolling to frequent and landing early.This is not the normal thing so there is more than likely a good reason for doing so.Most likely not getting enough to eat for the amount of work it is doing.I would feed it up a couple of days and then only fly every other day with the kit and see if that didn,t help.If that didn't work I would pull the tail feathers.Let it get its mind on other things.If the handler can,t correct the problem and it starts interfering with the other kit birds then is the time to make the decision to cull or keep.At this point I cull them permanant. David
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
550 posts
Mar 24, 2006
2:36 PM
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Hey David, let me answer his question again and see if this makes more sense...
"I've got a 4 month old Roller(Ray Sanchez family) that just rolls way too much and will land early. Should I cull him now or give him more time to correct this problem?"
Hey Dark Roll, that depends on how much exposure to bad habits you want your other birds to have from this bird.
I recently gave a hen that was acting up, 4 days to fix itself. She did not and is no longer in my young bird kit. The other youngsters that were hanging with her have started to fly much higher and longer. Good call on my part.
I have too many other potentially good rollers in this team to hassle myself with this problematic hen. As a general rule, I have found for my family of birds that the good ones just don't seem to have these kinds of problems.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
704 posts
Mar 24, 2006
3:16 PM
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Tony.The point I am trying to make is that You knew what the problem was with your roller.You said you didn,t get it in the air as early as the others.
What we are talking about here are rollers at different ends of the spectrum.
Yours never learned how to fly and Dark Roll's is working its butt off rolling.Both were landing early.What we need to know is what is causing Dark Rolls bird to land early before we cull it.Just maybe it is the Champion of the kit?? David
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tapp
65 posts
Mar 24, 2006
3:17 PM
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I think if you had alot of rollers already, you can cull quicker. I'm just starting out. I think I would have a kit just for the misfits. So while you're waiting for them to shape up they'er not flying with the good one's and giving them bad habits.IF you have the space and time. Besides if your just starting out like me only one year in rollers,I think we have to give them a little longer to shape up. Once I've been breeding a few years and get more experience with the squeekers and which ones seem to never over come after certain amount of time, and I feel comfortable with my judgment, then culling will be a easier decision. Just a rookie's opinion!
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Tapp
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Tapp
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Velo99
302 posts
Mar 24, 2006
3:20 PM
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I recently had one fly over to the dumpster and rolled down right into it. He had finally reached the end of my rope. I will gave a few tries to correct bad behavior. This guys was way out of bounds . Non kitting,early landing funky rolling cull. I pulled him all the way back to the squeak team. After his second chance he was done.
v99
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
552 posts
Mar 24, 2006
3:50 PM
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Sigh...LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
553 posts
Mar 24, 2006
3:57 PM
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Hey Tapp, if you want to end up with good rollers later, you have to make hard(easy) decisions today. Don't hang onto a bird because you shrink your kit to only 5 birds flying instead of six. Pay the price now and it pays dividends later.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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knaylor
104 posts
Mar 24, 2006
4:46 PM
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Dark Roll, I started out with the same family of birds. My opinion is that the bird is working hard and getting tired before the others. Now that is if it is rolling with nice velocity and some depth, and from the kit. If so give the bird some extra feed and see what happens. Kevin
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fhtfire
376 posts
Mar 24, 2006
6:44 PM
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Tony,
You remember that little Black Ruby Roller hen that I had sent you a photo of. She started out over frequent...but I fed her up and she grew out of it. Now she is one of my best birds in my A-team. She is an 04 hen. She did it for about a month. What really helped was feeding her up. I noticed that when she was young..she was a real henny...she would get pushed all over the place so she was not getting her fair share of grub. Once I fed her up...she was a knock out. I honestly believe that you can't judge a young bird at that age. They go through so many stages. She would come down early...but not before about 30 minutes...she would usually head down about 5 minutes before the rest of the team. I have a lot more patience with the real young birds. I also had a Campbell hen that did the same thing..for about a week..same deal..real henny. She too turned into a rocket..until a hawk ate her. They were both..real small birds too. Now a bird landing on the roof and flying low and not kitting..that really affects the team...They get about a week or so to pull through that..but of course...you said that you had not flown the little hen..so maybe give her a little time.
But birds that are real young...you know as well as I know that it may take a little time to get a handle on the roll
rock and ROLL
Paul
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tapp
66 posts
Mar 24, 2006
6:47 PM
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Tony If it eventualy turned into a good roller. What would it hurt to fly it? I wouldn't breed from it.But I know what your saying. Thanks
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Tapp
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Velo99
303 posts
Mar 25, 2006
5:18 AM
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Hey Paul,
The little dun bird hit the ground three times before he could make it back to the kitbox yesterday. I will keep him in and on pellets for a week. Lots of cage time. He went from 10 to 40 in three minutes. Then he went thru a tree. That kinda addled him and he hit in the front yard from 20 then on top of the house and rolled off like Bruce Willis on a car hood. Before I could catch him, he hit the ground.I brought him in for a quite spot to recover. An hour later he was fine. I put him in the cage and fed him up on pellets, popped him back in the box.
I had to help the other one find the bottom.It was worth it everytime he hits one of those nice 40`s and jets right back.
I`ll go see if he is still kik`n in a minute.
These guys are some interesting squeaks.
YITS
v99
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spinnerdom
65 posts
Mar 25, 2006
9:29 AM
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my kit boxs have wire cages on top of roof. three in a row, cage #1 birds2weeks there,let them out up down up down on their own. now shorten the feed.
throw ball.let flag fall just drop it,do not wave, dont be in a hurry.
then remove all problematic birds,[crankers ,early landers,hitters]what ever to kite box#2 second round of young,do the same again, all problems kit#3 birds always fly late and lean on feed. remove good ones put back in kit #1 or #2 .
all bad ones keep flying, the october hawks straiten up the problem
early landers pull others very quickly.
i do not cull they do that on their own.
jim
Last Edited by spinnerdom on Mar 25, 2006 9:37 AM
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birdman
134 posts
Mar 25, 2006
9:55 AM
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Dark Roll,
Now that you've heard both sides of the issue, it's really up to you to manage YOUR birds as YOU see fit. Sometimes feeding and rest will help, sometimes not. But if you cull the bird now, you will never know if it would have straightened out. As most roller guys can tell you, lots of young birds act up in one way or another when developing the roll. Do you have a different kit that you can move the bird to? Have you asked the advice of the person who you got your family of birds from? Whatever you choose to do, it's another one of those first steps on the road to experience.
Russ
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J_Star
318 posts
Mar 25, 2006
8:31 PM
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I would try to de-worm them. It is possible that this bird has an advanced stage of worms which is robbing him of needed nutrients. Give it a try and see if problem is corrected. If not, follow Jim's way with the different boxes if that is possible. Tony and Shaun have valid points, so in a month if problem is not corrected, then make him disappear. Good luck.
Jay
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Dark Roll
5 posts
Mar 29, 2006
1:15 PM
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Thanks to all who gave me advice. I fed the bird up, let it
rest, pulled the tail feathers, and before long, the bird is kitting with the others.
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Richard A.
80 posts
Mar 29, 2006
6:13 PM
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Tony, I completely agree with you.
Richard A.
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trevsta65
7 posts
Mar 29, 2006
11:30 PM
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being new to the sport and only having a few birds in my kit that i have bred that are kitting very tight .i thought id try to top up the numbers with a few purchases how wrong i was. all i got were a couple of disruptive birds which only got 5 chances before as like shaun told his kids flew away . iwont make that mistake again cheers trev.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
712 posts
Mar 30, 2006
3:41 AM
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Dark Roll.A lot of fellows might laugh at or make a joke of the Tail Feather pulling but it is an old trick that works.If you have a sick bird pull the tail feathers.A bird that you have decided is a cull pull its tail feathers.Don't ask me how or why it works but it does.I have saved many a bird by doing this that otherwise I would have culled.They look like bats flying but if nothing else the hawks will go after them first.LOL.It does not effect the roll in any way and sometimes makes it appear as if they are rolling faster and tighter.I used to do it as a last resort but the past couple of years it is the first thing I do. David
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