siddiqir
177 posts
Mar 30, 2006
12:36 PM
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Are you interested in sharing good and bad (your experience) on family of rollers you currently fly or past family you had flown? This is not to make any well know roller fancier or his family of birds good or bad but this is just to collect data of each family of rollers what they lacks and good they have. At some point you would need to bring in new blood and cross two family together and there must be reason of doing it...so it give idea where all these family standing...
Again please, I am not putting any good or bad word for any one this is just what I HAVE EXPERIENCE. I hope you guys come up and share what you think about your rollers or stain or family or any thing you worked on in the past and either switch to new family or cross with some good bloodline.
My take
1) Carl H. bloodline (I bought these birds and not sure if they are really from Carl. H line) but here is what I experience
- Stiff
- Love to fly
- Very tame
- Fly High
- Good kitter
2) Sammy W. (I did not get birds directly from Sammy however they were pure as far as I know)
- Loaded with roll
- Fly low (no matter what I feed)
- High % of roll downs
- Confuse birds
- Not tame
- Look and feel very strong
- Roll with quality and very fast. I have seen some nice fast rolling birds out of Sammy W. family
- No kitting
3) Richard J.
- Loaded with roll
- Very frequent
- Feed can adjust height (low / high)
- Lost very easily (this include young and adult birds)
- No homing instinct at all
- Tame birds
- Some look really nice and strong others not (50/50)
- Good kitter (some are problemtic birds never want to kit)
4) Rick Mee line
- Kit really well. Only time I seen all over the sky when hawks cut the kit. Otherwise they stay together 99% of the time
- Strong flyer
- Young birds fly fast but correct themselves after few months
- Very good homing instinct never lost single birds (they know where the home is)
- Feed can control them (high / low flying)
- Not very tame some do
- Roll very smooth and fast. Less frequent then Richard J.
I hope to hear from you guys (bad & good) about your family of rollers or rollers you have kept in the past
Last Edited by siddiqir on Mar 30, 2006 12:43 PM
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J_Star
338 posts
Mar 30, 2006
1:12 PM
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Where did you get the Richard Jaconette from? Did you get them from the man himself?
What do you think Rick Mee's birds blood line from? Just wondering? Thanks
Jay
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
455 posts
Mar 30, 2006
1:16 PM
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Shows you have been paying attention Rauf.
Here's my thoughts
272/514 stuff from a couple different sources:
Horrible kitters.
Come in anywhere from 6-12 months
Get freaked out really easy
High strung, fast flying
Like to fly high
Low metabolism
Most are above average in quality and speed of the roll
Lots of serious mental issues with the ones I worked with.
Very good at predator evasion.
Horner (jacs)
Great kitters
Most come in 5-6 months old.
average to slow flying.
Fly height can be low or high.
Average to some above average speed and quality.
Most come in hot and if they are going to kill themselves, it happens in the first week or two of hard rolling.
real easy to control and train.
Do well on straight wheat.
Pretty good homing ability.
Not very good at evading the falcon though.
Reed (jacs) from different sources
Butterfly slow flight pattern
Some come in during their first month of flying. Most are around 3-6 months of age.
Like to fly really low in their first 12 months of age.
Deep in body with a heavy appetite
Lots of way over-cooked rollers.
Super deep and some very fast rollers
Dumb as donkey shit when it comes to homing. They are lucky to find their way home from down the street.
If they bump, it usually hurts their feelings and they won't fly for a month. These birds are way too sensitive and dumb, but can roll like a sumbitch hopped up on crank!
Westfalls (limited experience)
Only raised about a dozen but largely these birds come in at around 4-6 months.
Roll gets deeper as they age.
Some nice pattern and speed, but it tends to vary. Some days they look like crap.
Very easy to manage and they like to fly slow and medium height.
Appear to be rather smart birds
Type will very quite a lot from cobby to rangy.
Somewhat similar all around to the Horner birds.
My Black Elvis stuff
Butterfly pattern
Hens come in at 5 months, cocks at 7-8 months
Likes to fly at a medium height until they get past one year, then they want to lift.
Only comes in three colors (black, blue check and andalusian)
Some super fast spinners but a fair number of x wingers too
The deeper keeled ones tend to be stiffer. The medium keeled ones are the best.
Very few roll downs.
Very good homing ability. One made it home from about 20 miles away.
Not as smooth as the Horner or Reed birds in the roll. A bit more choppy look.
Brian.
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siddiqir
179 posts
Mar 30, 2006
1:35 PM
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Great Stuff Brain. If every one post their experenice then we will learn a lot about different family of rollers around.
Jay,
Richard Jaconette rollers I have came from Bobby B. of TN and his stock go back to Ellis M. of AL. I have read about Ellis M. Jac line and a hen got crossed in (Ellis M. did) so I would say they are not pure Jacs but Ellis M. line.
I have two source for Mee birds. All Mee birds I have came directly from Mee but there is a hen which came from PA also Mee line. I think she was banded by Mee (I am not 100% sure).
Thanks, -Rauf
Last Edited by siddiqir on Mar 30, 2006 1:36 PM
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fhtfire
392 posts
Mar 30, 2006
4:37 PM
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Here is what I have played with.
Masons
Come in from 6-11 months
very good quality
get fat easy
not super fast
like to fly
do not like the Cali heat
easy to control
pretty good homing ability
ok kitting
FLY LOW!!
over cooked..
Coo in a British accent
like tea
Scott Campbell
Excellent Speed
Excellent quality
come in any color as long as it is RR or Dark check..LOL!
get strong real easy you can lose control real quick
perform best when you feed them down
not for the newbie
when they are on..none better.
very powerful birds
goofy
good depth
kit like glue
good homing ability
4-7months come into roll
feather quality not as good..but it could be the speed..a good campbel kit birds..look like it has had the shit beat out of it.
Work very Hard
can live for a week off one grain of wheat
will attack and kill any yellow or bird of rare color
Ruby Rollers
Super Fast
15-25'rollers
can be pretty hot(lavender side)
kit very good
lost quite a bit compared to all others.
work well as a team with any strain
love to roll
very frequent
not real powerful birds
excellent quality
roll better when fed up
don't like to have food cut
come in 3-6 months
hope you like red based birds
Tame
very typey
Mort Emami (Jac)
Fast
Excellent quality
high % of good birds
deeper 25-40'
Kit like glue
good homing
very tame
smaller birds
like to roll
same as Ruby Rollers in character
do not need to starve
work as a team
Bee line back to kit
more bumpers...but straighten up
very athletic
don't fall apart when they get older
Chuck Roe (Jac)
Crosses very good with Mort birds
mean as hell. Not to mean..but mean
kit like glue
average %
15-30'
come into roll 4-8months
Quality excellent
speed ok
smaller birds like Mort and Ruby
take to the air early
good character.
work good as a team
not as frequent
not real deep 20' is what you get
Lavin/Turner
Hot
Deep
Fast
come into roll about 3-7 months
longer cast
excellent parents
bump a lot when young..but get better and better.
longer cast
very powerful
kit like glue
frequency Normal
deep but strong enough to get back to kit with ease
Pure Turners end up as lawn darts...to many Hot birds.
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 13, 2008 3:41 PM
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Planet_Rock_Lofts
12 posts
Mar 30, 2006
8:16 PM
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Bloodline: Fessenden (New Mexico) and Bloodline: Indiana (porchased from ToyBox Lofts). After I put together these two families this is what I get
Fessenden/indiana
Very fast spinners
all progeny roll, no stiffs or non rollers
very intelligent
produces very very deep roller and 10' - 25' spinners
mentally able to handle roll
very early development 4 - 6 mos
good parents, no infertile eggs or squabs dead in egg.
good homing instinct, even as sqeekers.
like to fly once wings developed
not a lot of grunting when held in hand
If anyone knows anything about a bloodline from Indiana please let me know so that i can do some more research on the family.
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FallingStarRoller
1 post
Mar 30, 2006
8:32 PM
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sup People any1 selling Good Rollers.. i want to buy some and breed a new bloodling of rollers to battle with the one i have rite now... the one i have rite now rollers about 20-40 feets.. any selling the bird have to rolls aleast 15+ feets...
Yee
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tapp
75 posts
Mar 30, 2006
10:09 PM
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Paul you made spit coffee all over my key board when ya said scotts birds attack and kill yellows and birds of color. you crack me up. I've only flew a year I got some pensoms they kit good don't come in the roll till 9 months. If I mess with feed they rolldown.Last year I had 6 rolldowns out of the Pensoms. But probably 99% my fault. If I kept fed up there ok most 20-30ft. kind of stiff. I have Henderson line. They kit tight roll fast. ther'es 10fters 20 fters. 30 fters. seem to have good control.there 05 birds. I'm flying 11 sgueeks 2 pensoms 9 Hendersons they kit from first few days they do a few flip. flying twice a day. all they want to eat after last fly and half cup after fist fly. Im breeding 6 pair of Daves line.I got 2 05 Hendersons Im going to pair up Ive been flying' they are both rolling 30 ft and back to kit. Before they get hit by a hawk.Next year I'll know more. 6 pr are proven breeders. so I'll be busy flying out birds. all this year! PS Pensoms fly high, the Hendersons fly a nice hight 300ft some times higher but come baqk to desent height. All rec reds'some white flights and tails and black selfs. Having alot of fun this is a great sport! My wife came throuh surgery fine be home in a few more days! Thanks all! PS both lines are tame and good homming. haven't lost a bird of either line. Hawks got 2 Pensoms last fall.
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Tapp
Last Edited by tapp on Mar 30, 2006 10:13 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
173 posts
Mar 31, 2006
7:13 AM
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To my knowledge, it would take at least 5 years to truly know what the family has to offer.
Interesting notes tho guys,
Thor
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siddiqir
180 posts
Mar 31, 2006
8:00 AM
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Thor, you have valid point however this post is more like what you have experience so far with family of birds you currently have or have flown in the past. So we can make it simple. What you like about your birds or what you do not like about your birds. I hope people post honest response here.
Thanks, -Rauf
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bernie m.
5 posts
Mar 31, 2006
12:57 PM
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great post rauf!!!...bernie the jersey flight flyer
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kcfirl
8 posts
Mar 31, 2006
1:37 PM
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The way you guys talk - you all have birds better than mine.
fast, stylish, deep, kitters.
I only get 1 out of 3 that I would even consider calling a Birmingham Roller.
Ken Firl
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knaylor
146 posts
Mar 31, 2006
4:46 PM
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Ken, my thoughts also. What the heck are we doing wrong??? LOL Kevin
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J_Star
344 posts
Apr 01, 2006
7:38 AM
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The majority of my birds originated from Danny Horner and 11 new birds from Paul (fhtfile). Brian M did describe Horner's birds to the Tee and Paul discribed his family of birds as my experiences with them. So you have it in regards to my birds. Although, Paul's birds have to prove themselves this spring after a lengthy winter lockup. But I see the goods are there so far, thanks Paul. Both families are very close in relation to feed, flight habits, size and appearance. If I don't tell you which is which, you can not tell the difference. I have a side project breeding a cock of Danny's to a hen from Paul. The youngesters will be in the kit box next week. I hope it is worthy of a try, where crossing them would yield even better performers.
Jay
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ICEMAN710
275 posts
Apr 23, 2008
1:38 AM
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found another good old post. Share your information guys!
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Gary
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ICEMAN710
276 posts
Apr 23, 2008
1:38 AM
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found another good old post. Share your information guys!
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Gary
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c robbo
330 posts
Apr 23, 2008
4:35 PM
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the apple dose not fall far from the tree.that is how i breed
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sippi
176 posts
Apr 23, 2008
7:01 PM
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I have flown Pensoms ( supposedly )
All blacks, checks, badge/beard blues.
Fast spinners
fair kitters
Some very deep but most ten to thirty footers.
Lost the line to an overfly so I switched.
I now fly Turners.
Hot
fast
ten to thirty mostly
Some very deep and several bumpers
Mentally a little weaker than Pensoms
Good homing ability
Mostly good kitters except the mentally weak ones.
come into roll too early for me eight to twelve weeks
if they survive the roll make great birds
do not have to coax the roll out by cutting the feed
Do very well fed up
fly about 150-300 ( I really like that )
Very good birds for a beginner
Will crash and burn if feed is cut way back
sippi
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ICEMAN710
499 posts
Aug 26, 2008
2:17 AM
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good one, bump!
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Gary
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rollernewbie
227 posts
Nov 10, 2008
9:49 PM
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i was digging through the site and came upon this old post..and thought it would be good for us newbies in the hobby to learn about more family of birds..and just wanted to bump this...
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RollerNewbie
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THISROLL
53 posts
Nov 10, 2008
10:01 PM
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wow i am surprise lol... how many families are there anywyas.??? like 20???
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brudahpete
127 posts
Nov 11, 2008
2:00 AM
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I wonder if elevation and/or climate change plays a big part on the different families. Interesting post!
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3757
1011 posts
Nov 11, 2008
2:27 AM
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brudahpete - You are thinking and you are on the correct track because it does.
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0042
35 posts
Nov 11, 2008
6:27 AM
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seems to me when you get rollers from some one else, all your really getting is there gene pool. of course you want to get the best you can, but even then, you have to build your own family out of them. i think its great you give or share the credit of your sucess with the person you got them from, but really its down to you. the way you train,feed,house them and how you breed. they need to be acclamated to there new weather,altitude,tempeture,wind condition ect,ect. There is a good chance, if you went and bouhgt the world cup winning kitt and settle them at your house, most flyers could never get them to perform as good as they saw them on competition day. thats why i stand firm on, get a couple of the best you can find and breed your own.BUT PICK THEM OUT OF THE AIR. have fun, keep looking up and enjoy the hobby......................
Last Edited by on Nov 11, 2008 6:42 AM
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Fireball
15 posts
Nov 11, 2008
8:01 AM
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Planet Rock...Indiana..Toy Box lofts..Greg Babst aka Fast Eddy..Fireball rollers...address 8311 SR #48 Aurora, IN 47001..for more information..sorry No telephone number in my book...Have not heard much out of him for a bit. Hope this helps. Bruce
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Fireball
16 posts
Nov 11, 2008
8:11 AM
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So true, LD. Racing homer guys got that figured out some time ago..buy birds on East coast, fly them on the West coast..often with problems for the first 2-3 generations. Not always, but often. If a major difference occurs, I would check the original breeder and ask about his management...feed, flying,(times per day..1,2,)age weaned, hens with cocks or visa versa..ect. Do they fly in the rain...wind??? Just a few things to ask the breeder when you purchase the birds from him. Someone else can comment on sun spots, general weather differences in our grand country, magnetic fields..clear days vs cloudy days...come on you old bass's..rise to the bait and talk to us about weather. Bruce
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3757
1012 posts
Nov 11, 2008
8:41 AM
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Fireballer - Thanks! Since we both raise homers we know that many of the myths in rollers is pure BS.
Here is an article I wrote that Tony graciously posted in the reading room.
Judging Roller Families
This is an excellent subject as you cannot judge someone's birds on one or twenty and you know why? What if the twenty are all off of one or two pair? Does that sampling suggest the totality of that individuals strain?
I am not incompetent and know that in order to do a true evaluation you have to tell me sampling size, method of evaluation and a lot of other things (How many birds did you fly of this family, how and by what standard are you judging them etc?
How long did you breed and fly them?
Did you get the directly from the fancier?
How long have you raised rollers and what is your experience?
You never hear any of that being stated by, in many cases, novices who critique strains. I know people do not want to talk about this but new fanciers make tons of mistakes. If a fancier is a newbie please take your time evaluating carefully before you critique.
Also, all of the statements made about anyone's strain is incomplete because there are so many unknowns that you do not know regarding if they received the birds directly from the breeder or are they from so and so who got them from so and so and are still using the name of the fancier?
Do not believe the rhetoric about a strain that you can just throw them in a cage and viola you are in. You are, breeding pigeons, dealing with genes and genetics and it is not that simplistic. I know a guy who had a family for six months and bashed them and guest what he is trying to get them back again because the guy he sold them to is now spinning pigeons like crazy.
He was impatient and he was listening to the rhetoric of his friends. Guess what, they want a few also.
The simplistic view of heredity that many fanciers have is the ideas that traits are transmitted from bird's parents are fixed and only the great qualities of a strain will be passed down. This is false.
Professor LaRon Doucet
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Spin City USA
105 posts
Nov 11, 2008
11:19 AM
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Great comments from all,I was going to post something but 0042 and 3757 were right on point.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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RodSD
28 posts
Nov 11, 2008
5:09 PM
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I've been looking for this article. Thank you very much. It can save lots of time evaluating rollers. I think it is a good guide for me to use when someday I will get a roller.
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chuck
20 posts
Nov 13, 2008
6:25 AM
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J Star,
I was wondering, What You are trying to get by crosssing
that cock and hen? ( what characteristic ).
Paul,
What line of Birds do You have?
Chuck
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fhtfire
1639 posts
Nov 13, 2008
3:43 PM
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I have Mort Emami and Ruby Rollers......J-star is doing what we all do...testing the goods....what if that cross takes his birds to the next level....I know that my Crosses between the RUby and Morts took my birds to the next level...but it is the Level THAT I have set....with birds...usually it the Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 13, 2008 3:45 PM
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