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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Stock birds
Stock birds
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rollerpigeon1963
75 posts
Mar 31, 2006
4:50 PM
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After reading some of these post about many raising excellent style birds with great depth. I have to ask how many birds do you raise a year and how many of them do you stock?
And the ones you stock do they have the style and depth that you are looking for.
The reason I'm asking this is because some of the better scores comes from kits of various ages from 5 years to 7 moths old.
Now before some go crazy and say they won or know someone that won with a young bird kit.
Because I usually get one or two birds a year that I would stock. Out of 80 to 100 birds. Not saying my kit isn't any good but I cull hard and set levels a little higher when it comes to the loft.
And if you get a large % of keepers do you fly in competitions? and what are your %'s.
Just a few simple questions.
Thanks Brian Middaugh
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
456 posts
Mar 31, 2006
5:24 PM
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My percentages have gotten better and better each year. In the first few years, I would give any bird a try in the stock loft that appeared to be better than others I had. They weren't the "best roller ever", but they rolled better, or more frequent, with good character, etc. Each year the better ones were given a shot at breeding, and each year the percentages of usuable competition birds increased, as has the quality. I would think many people have probably experienced something similar over the past years.
I used to band about 150+ rollers a year. Last year I think I only kept about 120 for myself. Last year was epic for me in terms of production, and compared to past years. I stocked 12 '05 birds to give them a shot at seeing what they can produce. They possessed one or all of the features I want or thought would balance out with other birds I know what they produce. Some were chosen for the extra speed, some for the extra depth, etc, and all have a good mindset which is Number One important for me. I would say that I came close to 50 percent good competition birds that can do it good enough for the A team. I've got at least 50 spinners I can use for a comp team at the moment, birds I can trust to do it right and put on a good show. I've never had that before and hope to continue to progess and increase those percentages even more. Because the number of useable comp birds have increased so dramatically in the last two years, I will only band about 80 or so this year.
I don't have a problem trying different birds in the breeding pen. If I think they are the best I have produced, or equal to some I have in the stock loft, I'll give them a shot. I don't think one has to have a "high level of perfection" in terms of what they stock. Stocking a bird isn't a Final Answer where if you make that decision you have to live it. Hey, if they don't work out, just put them back in the kit box. Some of the best birds I have ever raised came by total surprise.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
706 posts
Mar 31, 2006
8:03 PM
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I get maybe 3-4 stockable birds a year and maybe , and I mean maybe 20 0/0 that I consider A team keepers as far as qaulity and depth.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Mar 31, 2006 8:17 PM
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dave
76 posts
Mar 31, 2006
9:10 PM
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Last year I bred close to 80 youngsters. I had one that was just awesome and one that I would consider stock quality. The birds wan not only great in my eyes but from anyone that saw that bird also. My friends were telling to stock it but I said that I wanted to fly it out for at least 2 years first and guess what, a falcon took it.
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STARFIRE
16 posts
Apr 01, 2006
5:27 PM
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Hey guys:
I usualy breed about 100 or more young every year,from about 40 pair.I normaly mate them in the middle of February
the first round I will get some 30 to 40 to put in the flycoops for training.Out of these 30 -40 I can usually get a good competition kit of 30-40 ftrs,with excellent quality and speed by the end of July or early August.I have done this consistently since about 1975.My birds are early developers
and I always have have a high percentage of quality stockable birds.I never worry about stock birds.I usually have too many to use.And yes I have won All my competitions years ago with young birds only.And that is flying them against the competitions best young or old birds,at that time.
STARFIRE
Stan Arnold
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Apr 01, 2006 5:33 PM
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motherlodelofts
710 posts
Apr 01, 2006
5:44 PM
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You guys have me all whooped to hell , although I see young birds in thier first year as nothing more than potential and I put little stock in them.
I don't care what family it is , few young birds show me the consitant qaulity and speed that a good old bird can .
Youngbirds mean little to me other than future potential when they mature and show me and have prooven to me what they truely are made of and that they can handle it for the long haul.
If I had what some of you guys had I would be totaly unbeatable.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Apr 01, 2006 5:47 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
177 posts
Apr 01, 2006
8:15 PM
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Brian (rollerpigeon),
I have found the opposite. As the best teams I have seen in the air would consist of mostly old birds ranging from 2-9 year olds. There may be a very good yearling or two in the bunch but the majority is all old. For consistant, fast, tight, huge breaks, there is non I have come across then the older teams.
Now, that is not to say that young birds can not do the job. There have been some very good young teams - if your birds are early developing. Altho, the majority young teams I have seen seem to be all roll. Meaning, wasted frequency. Waterfall breaking. I have yet to come across a consistant young team.
I think if you want to fly a young bird team, it would have to be in the 11 flys. To be competitive in the 20 fly, my experience tells me that you need to build a old bird team. This may take acouple of years.
About your question, I would breed about 20 to 30 max a year. By next Jan., I would of culled down to my best birds. My goal is to have pushed 10 on from these 20-30. Out of these 10, I would have at least one that would blow me away in style, velocity, and frequency. Altho I don't put much stock in young bird's frequency, the style and velocity seems to all ways improve as they age. Last year, out of 33 youngs, I had 3 that I would consider stock material (survived the preds).
I am very happy with my selection of breeders (blood) as it has took me 4 years to weave thru all these lines within the strain. I hope my percentage will go up every year as I have put focus on only a few selects.
Stan, I have a question for you. You state you have the goods for the longest time now. As I looked thru some of my club's old Newsletters, I noticed your name in acouple of past World Cup flys. I don't recall any points if any, non passed 20 pionts. What happened, if you breed such high percentage of quality birds? Correct me if I am wrong. 40 pairs and more still every year - so much so that it is more then one needs. This would mean putting 20 stock quality performers wouldn't be a problem for you. That would be a kit to watch. Put it up!
I would be happy to get 6 pairs of air proven birds. 2 True Champions would just be heaven in the stock loft. It would take me quite a long time to meet my goals in the breeding pen. Even then, I would think about improvements and cull low % producing breeders. My breeders now surely will be tomorrows culls.
I think a fellow Canadian - Monty M. all ways up graded. I heard he hardly kept any thing in the stock loft more then 6 years. That would make sense if you are all ways improving. It must of worked as his record speaks for itself.
Thor
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Apr 01, 2006 8:19 PM
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fhtfire
396 posts
Apr 01, 2006
8:26 PM
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Well,
I breed about 60-80 birds a year....between birds I gave away..culled...hawks...sold...donated....lost...I have only stocked two birds in the last two years. I am pretty picky and I am like Scott....young birds are nothing but potential. I give them at least a year before I stock. I stocked an 04 Black cock...I pulled him in Jan....was about 25-40'..snapped right out...back to the kit...fast...frequent..just a knock out bird. He bumped a couple times at the 1 year mark and I thought...to good to be true...another 6 months and not a bump. He was the leader of the A team...when I pulled him..team went to hell for a week or so..LOL..the other was an 05 Blue check hen...born on Jan 1 05. I pulled her after a 13 months of flying...she was 30-40' fast as lightning..and snapped right out...she was a total standout from the youngbird team--to the B-team to the A-team. I plan on stocking a Black Ruby roller 04 hen after the world cup and I plan on breeding her to an 04 baldy Ruby Roller cock they are both showing me the good...the black hen is for sure...the Blady has 3-4 months more of flying. Anyway...I get pretty high percentages from my birds...I was lucky enough to get mostly proven breeders from Chuck Roe and Mort Emami when I started out. I have two RR hens that are campbell..man are they good...I will be calling scott to borrow a nice cock to put on these two hens if they hold it together over the end of the summer. Over all..out of the last two years...maybe 2 pair to the stock loft...I do have two hens that I will pull and put on the Black cock too.
I truly believe that how many birds you stock depends on how picky you are. I am like Scott....they have to be real good and stand out above the rest...you just know when you have a stockable bird...they are the cream at the top.
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by fhtfire on Apr 01, 2006 8:29 PM
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STARFIRE
17 posts
Apr 02, 2006
10:20 AM
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Hi Thor:
You must have missed the 97 W.C.I scored 230.4pts. 1.5Q-1.6D.This score was highest in the world at the time.My scoresheet is on my website.Rod Fomby? won that year with 288 pts I think.They only scored my birds for 15 min.I had one out bird the last 5 min.(they said).I had another world fly judge tell me he would rate my birds in the top 30 in the world.Believe it or not.He said that very few roller guys had 1 family for so long and never needed to add new blood to keep it going.That was a long time ago.I
dont try to put a good team together anymore.Ijust breed them for my own enjoyment.I know what they can do and I don`t care what anybody thinks about them,especially guys that have never seen them perform.I didn`t make the finals
that year.Oh I dont fly my stock,when it goes in my stock loft it never gets out anymore,that way I don`t lose any of the really good birds.
Stan Arnold
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Apr 02, 2006 11:59 AM
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Mount Airy Lofts
180 posts
Apr 02, 2006
1:08 PM
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Stan,
Thanks for the correction. As I stated, I recall seeing your few scores (you must of not entered many flys as I recall seeing only 2 scores) but non pass 20. I should look at them old World Cup Fly score more often, it gives a lot of history of who has been flying great birds for a long time. The comments given on each report is priceless.
I didn't state you should fly your breeders. I stated that you should have a kit of breeding quality spinners. As I understood your post above that you breed more breeders then you need. That would mean you wouldn't have a problem mustering up all breeding quality fliers in one team.
Here is another question I am interested in. How come you only fly the 30-40 birds you bred out of 100 plus?
From 30 birds bred each year from me, I would be lucky to move up 10 birds that were average to above average. The rest would be culled or culled themselves by roll downs, over flies, etc. Out of those 10, maybe 5 would still be there next year (2 years old). I don't like to feed birds I wouldn't want to breed out of in the future. So average birds are culled from my flying program. I only run one kit box so they have to earn their feed if they want to stay around.
What is your secret?
Thor
P.S. I don't get non rollers like many other people. I do get non kitters, sloppy rollers, short rollers, mad bumpers, and once in a while a wing switcher. All of which is culled by the following Jan.
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STARFIRE
19 posts
Apr 02, 2006
5:35 PM
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Hi Thor:
I didn`t mean to give the impression that I only fly the first 30-40 young birds.I fly everything.I have 7 kitboxes that hold 30 each.What I meant was that the first nest 30-40 will turn out to be the best to use as a young bird kit.
My second round will also be spinning before Nov.I usually cant keep too many young birds some years because the guys come by and buy them all up.I breed from the same stock birds for a long time if the are giving me what I want.A lot of my stock I have been breeding for over 10 years.
That W.C. kit that i was talking about I sold because I had a much better Y.B. kit the next year.I can breed consistent 30-40 ft young birds every year.The reason they are so early and stable is that,when I first got this family,(I only started with 5 pair)for the first 20 years or so ,When it was time to lock them down for the winter in Nov,I would kill all the birds that were not spinning.
I never kept anything that did not spin in the first year.Actually if you think about it,they would be flying only 6-7 months tops.I love them when they come into the spin so early,because I know they will be deep stable birds,with a few rolldowns of course.I will fly whats left of the current years birds -next year.Thats after the rolldowns,the.odd cull-non kitter -landing in a tree- and the hawks breakfast or lunch.I dont really like to fly the last years birds,but i do.I`m more interested in the young birds.I have seen what the older ones from last year can do. I don`t bump them off the in the fall anymore I fly them out the next year,Till my young birds crowd them out
STARFIRE
Stan Arnold
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