SJP
19 posts
Apr 04, 2006
7:40 PM
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Have been raising rollers for about 7-8 years. Like most, when starting, bought a pair from this guy, another pair from another guy etc. Before long you have 3-4 different families of birds. I have been working with the different families all of this time. I raise about 50 birds a year. I get about 15-20 birds which i would considered to be good kit birds. What i mean by good kit birds is birds that roll 5-15 feet and kit well, never any bad habits. I get about 5 birds that i would considerd to be good birds. By good i mean kit well and roll about 15-25 feet with what i would considerd average-good quality. I dont know how this compares to other roller breeders? Please let me know.I have put alot of time into my birds (7-8 years).However, i have been reading most of the post for th past 3 weeks.It seems as though most have a higher percentage of birds of better quality. However, i dont know if this is mostly b.s. or not?
My question is this. Having put in some much time into this project, would you start from scratch with one proven family or would you continue working with the families that you have? If you think i should start from scratch, then were would you start to look for quality birds? I am from the New England area (Mass.)
Most of my birds are average in size. However, I prefer small typy birds. Does anyone know were i can buy, if i decide to scratch this project, stable birds, that are of good quality, and are easy keepers? Color does not matter. I compete in most of our local flys. Therefore, i need birds that i can compete with and have quality roll. Please feel free to respond and let me know your true opinion. Also, what about some of the birds that are offered for sale on the NBRC auction. Most of the names i recognize from the Roller Journal. However, not sure of the breeders that are offering these birds. Can someone give some input on the birds that are offered for sale in this auction? Again, if some one was just starting out, who would you recommend as to purchasing birds from this auction or a private party that is or willing to sell birds? I have been looking at the Ruby Rollers web-site. Some great looking birds. However, I need some more input on other breeders as well.
Thanks,
Honest opinions only.
SJP
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Velo99
329 posts
Apr 04, 2006
7:54 PM
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SJP,
Take your best cock put him on your best two hens,foster three rounds. Should give you a 18 kit of half sibs to work with for a season. Fly these out and put the best three hens back on the cock next year and so on til you get where you wanna be with the size and type of bird.In three years this will be your family and have no resemblance to the original.
Sounds like you have some good stock to work with. I only got 5-7 good birds last season from 40 squeaks so you are pretty close. I will raise two kits, one with the "special" pairs early,then the main family poly/foster for numbers of related squeaks.In other words a fun kit and a work kit. lol
yits mtc
v99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Apr 04, 2006 7:55 PM
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SJP
20 posts
Apr 04, 2006
8:32 PM
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V99
That sounds like a great idea. I think i will try that. I guess i was getting alittle discouraged. My best cock is a 92 bird. I hope he can handle the job?
Thanks,
SJP
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J_Star
370 posts
Apr 05, 2006
4:49 AM
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You can add some quality birds from Tony (Ruby Rollers). Get couple of good hens or couple of cocks or couple pairs to help establish a good stock birds for you. It will only help when you compare what you already have with the new and that will clear the way for you on how you want to go. Give it a try.
Jay
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Outlaw Vizsla
2 posts
Apr 05, 2006
7:00 AM
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Not to steal SJP's thread but I think Im kinda in a similar situation as well...I just got into rollers a couple of weeks ago and received 6 birds(3hens,3cocks). They've only been flown once so far but from what I can tell I have 4 that hang tight and drop anywhere from 10-20ft. The other two are larger birds and I did not witness them rolling at all. All seem to break when they feel like it...but having only flown them once(bad weather probs) I can’t really tell you more than that.
As far as what family these came from I have no clue! I didn’t exactly do my research to begin with and now realize I probably got someone’s culls. How should I be evaluating these birds as keepers or culls? I haven’t seen anyone else fly rollers so I have no formed opinions of what I should have; only what I’ve read over the past two –three weeks on all the forums.
Do I ditch these birds and purchase others from a reputable breeder? Do I even have a proper setup for breeding and raising rollers?(See pics of loft below) Where in Ohio do I find a reputable breeder? I really don’t want to put more time into these birds if I don’t have proper stock to work with. So like SJP I’m at the same crossroads and haven’t a clue.
I’ll attach links to the birds I currently have as well as the loft I built. Loft is 4’ x 6’ and I have 25 nest boxes built into one end. Pics of the loft were taken just before it was completed I have perches installed now as well as a few other things.
Loft:
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/loft-003.jpg
Birds:
Hens-
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20001.jpg
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20003.jpg
Cock-
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20002.jpg
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20004.jpg
Two larger birds that I have not witnessed roll. First pic middle bird is the cock, second pic far left bird is the hen
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20005.jpg
http://www.outlawvizslas.com/pictures/pigeons/Pigeons%20006.jpg
Opinions and suggestions greatly appreciated.
Matt Rogers
Outlaw Vizslas
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fhtfire
403 posts
Apr 05, 2006
7:59 AM
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Hey guys
Check out the feature article that I wrote...it is on the left in between Roller Kit Boxes and Roller guide news letter. Anyway...the article explains a way of weeding down your birds. It sounds like you did the right thing by getting different families. It sounds like you did not complete your mission...as you start flying your birds...you have to start figuring out what family is right for you and dumping the families that are not. If you do no dump the families that are not for you.....you will spin your wheels or as Motherlode would say..Chasing your own tail. But before all..you have to start out with quality birds...that is the key...because you can't make chicken soup from chicken shit....(another Campbell quote) LOL! Once you dump a family..then you naturally start honing in around a family or a particular couple of pairs...anyway..read the article.
Not every family is right for every person. From what you explain..you may not have the quality of birds...anyway..J-star is right..Tony has quality birds...you know what...give me an e-mail or a call on the phone...paulfullerton@sbcglobal.net 530-662-7550 Both of the guys that posted give me a call!
The second guy...that posted...if you do not know where the hell your birds came from...that is not very good...you are starting off on the wrong foot. Anyway...read my article then give me a call....I fly Ruby Rollers and I can talk to you about those birds...and some other strains that I fly and I could give you some numbers of other fliers...anyway..give me a call..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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C.J.
76 posts
Apr 05, 2006
8:01 AM
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I think you are on the right track. I personally would not add any new blood at this time. I would also take serious notes of what is what. Document which birds are rolling the deepest with the most consistency and style. I would then breed from these select few. I would not allow any of the birds that are not going to further my program to breed. I would keep them strictly as fosters.
C.J.
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Alohazona
131 posts
Apr 05, 2006
9:28 AM
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Checkout the NBRC auction,you can obtain some birds from guys that normally don't sell and it helps the NBRC.A standout for me would be Ivan Hanchett,you could bet the farm on what he would offer up.
I would narrow it down on the familys you are working with.If you had to up and move and take only the best and fewest,who would they be??The others that you know to be good,help a newbie!!.....Aloha,Todd
Last Edited by Alohazona on Apr 05, 2006 9:31 AM
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Alohazona
132 posts
Apr 05, 2006
9:39 AM
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I also agree with CJ,more likely than not your on the right track.Narrow it down and don't breed from chance matings,just raises the feed bill.....Aloha,Todd
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J_Star
373 posts
Apr 05, 2006
10:12 AM
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Matt,
You are in the middle of Ohio spectrum. I am from Lorain. You have some good people and flyers in Portsmouth in the south, Attica, Clyde, Milan and Toledo in the South East and in Akron. If you don't have the NBRC bulletin to get name and numbers then email me and I might be able to provide you some of them. Also consider the Ruby rollers, they are pretty good rollers.
What you are gonna have most likely is fanciers starting to breed for themselves right now and will be difficult to secure a young kit or ½ a kit from them until later on this summer. If you want to get good rollers from outside the state from a well known stock, I know of others that I dealt with in the past who can be able to help right away. They ship them overnight express and you get them in couple of days. My email is:
Jay.alnimer@dfas.mil
Jay
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siddiqir
181 posts
Apr 05, 2006
10:34 AM
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SJP & Outlaw Vizsla, it is difficult to obtain good quality stock. The NBRC auction is good place to get some quality birds but again there are no gurantees. Well the truth is when you get birds and spend year and two with them then you will know what you have gotten also, if you wasted your time or you're moving in right direction.
You may get birds which you unable to handle or may not like all (style, how deep they roll or even color). I know color is not matter for most of the guys but there are many who want both color and roll. You may get birds which produce 80% culls you never know until you have birds and spend year or two with them.
If you closely look at NBRC auction you may only see one or two ad which says "PROVEN PAIR". This is what you should look for. If you getting young birds you are taking chance no matter where they coming from. The problem is no matter which family you go THEY ALL PRODUCE CULLS. Some produce high % and other low %. Now if you get young birds like for example kit of 10 you may able to find a pair or two which will give what you looking for and take from there. I personally like deep & fast rollers. So I need to have these (does not matter which family I am working with)
Additionally, most serious roller fanciers who compete and have good reputation usually do not SELL birds. This is another drawback to rollers hobby. They do let some go for free but not to every one. So it comes to know the person (Connections) and also show him how serious you are.
It is difficult to get full package deal. Roll, style, kitting, good homing, good parents...you will get some of it but not all. NO ONE WILL LET GO A PAIR WHICH HAVE ALL. You need to spend time fly --> cull --> select best and create good family (what you like)...so start with the best you can find and afford and work towards it. If your birds do not came from well know fancier or you do not know what blood you have ..then do not set back ... well known fancier name, what bloodline you have mean nothing...you need to breed and fly youngsters and they will tell you what you have...
Breed best to best and cull the rest...it is a long road...
Last Edited by siddiqir on Apr 05, 2006 10:57 AM
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motherlodelofts
720 posts
Apr 05, 2006
10:58 AM
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If I believed even half of what I read on Roller forums , mags , journals ect. I might as well kill everything on the property , fact is I know better though.
Birds that roll are easy to come by, birds that do it right with qaulity and have what it takes to handle it and looking at all others as culls is where the seperation is.
One thing that I have found is Bullshit is easy to come by ,my best advise is to get out and about and see what is out there , also fly every fly that you can.
I'm lucky here , I live in an area with topnotch flyers plus I have had the oppurtunity to travel alot and stand under many many kits, including some of the best flyers there are , much of that was judging , and some as spectator , good kits and good birds are easy to spot ,all else is what it is .
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Apr 05, 2006 11:39 AM
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nicksiders
506 posts
Apr 05, 2006
2:40 PM
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Hell, I only believe half of what I say....let alone what others say (and write).
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Velo99
331 posts
Apr 05, 2006
3:04 PM
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Mark,
A couple of years ago I got some no name squeaks from a friend of my brothers. I flew them out,attended the state picnic and picked up a few more birds.I got a few more birds over the course of the winter from the original guy. At this point I had 5 birds of pedigree out of 15.Funny thing was the mutts were better.
I bred 6 pair the first year, got roughly forty chicks, Flew till December and kept the best 22, including the holdover birds. I remember the first time I had a full 20 bird kit in the air. There were so many birds I couldn`t keep up.
I reveiwed my birds and brought in the final pair from the west coast. A PROVEN PAIR; they had produced good chicks on a regular basis. I cut back to five pairs and built better accomodations. Now I am ready to choose my first REAL BREEDING PLAN . The one that will effect the rest of my breeding forever. I chose very carefully based on what I wanted to see IN THE AIR AND ON THE GROUND. This breeding hasn`t even happened yet but I am real sure it will be a click pair.
Now my kit of no name birds scored 507.64 point in the W/C quals on Monday. This goes to show if, got it in the air you can have it in the pen. Pedigrees don`t fly! If you breed to what works FOR YOU if you train to what works FOR YOU, you will be successful.Always breed best to best.
YITS
v99
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C.J.
83 posts
Apr 06, 2006
4:18 AM
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You just need to build on what you have. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you will end up with. Just do't breed everything that you have cull hard. Then you will start to see some of the young you raise will be better than the parents and you breed from them. It always puzzles me as to why everyone is so quick to throw away what they have and go the easy route of buying birds someone else has committed to all of their hard time to. Half of the feeling of gratification is knowing the birds in the air that are amazing are yours not oh I bought them. Velo great for you that is the way it should be done.
So if you need inspiration to keep going velo is your new poster child.
C.J.
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Outlaw Vizsla
4 posts
Apr 06, 2006
7:50 AM
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Want to thank everyone for the suggestions and help. I had a long chat with Paul last night and he got me straightened out and moving in the right direction with my birds...Can't thank him enough.
Matt Rogers
Outlaw Vizslas
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merced guy
51 posts
Apr 06, 2006
2:03 PM
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Nick,
You crack me up man!!
good posts everyone. Scott I agree about what you said, very good point. Of course it takes some expereince to understand what you were just saying there, as I'm sure a newbie wouldn't know what you have jsut said about quality.
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J_Star
379 posts
Apr 06, 2006
6:46 PM
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Please define quality. It is used so often in general term as no one have it in their birds. State exactly how you see a quality bird.
For me to determine the quality of mine, I had to visit allot of lofts when comps are going and see other birds flying and compare to mine. Also as I compare my own birds against each other, I see quality spins and not so good. But I would like to know how each of you define quality. Thanks to all for your contributions.
Jay
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C.J.
96 posts
Apr 07, 2006
10:01 AM
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How are they rolling/ Are thery actually using one of the known patterns or are they twisting and flopping to one side. Which pattern do they roll in.
C.J.
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