trevsta65
8 posts
Apr 05, 2006
12:25 AM
|
hello there just wondering what opinions you guys have on this particular bloodline as im thinking of aquiring some cheeers, trev
Last Edited by trevsta65 on Apr 05, 2006 1:47 AM
|
Shaun
328 posts
Apr 05, 2006
11:03 AM
|
Trev, I have a good number of them, obtained directly as squeaks from George, last year. Other countries, over many years, have imported them from England and then go onto cross them with other strains. There's nothing wrong with that, but you would need to be sure of what you were getting. I've read many guys talk of their Masons in the US and their birds don't seem much like mine. For example, US Masons might come into the roll at seven months; for me it was about three to four.
I'm happy for mine not to fly too long - half to three quarters of an hour is an average. Some may not like this.
I'm not happy that they fly too low, so they keep disappearing behind the trees. That's a work in progress for me. I want them higher and I'm experimenting.
They're excellent kitters.
They often look like they want to land, even though you feel they've been fed enough. That can be annoying.
I won't blather on about the precise type of roll; suffice to say, they're tight and once a minute, average. I'm useless with the whole feet thing, in terms of how far they drop. I prefer to go by time. One second is a good average, but I've got a couple that will give me two - that's quite a drop, I daresay.
I've had the odd bumper and one which would have rolled right down on release from the loft (it was very cold), except it smacked off my forearm, so I probably saved its life. I had another one locked down for five months, then it escaped. I settled it, but it kept rolling down - once from a good height, smack into the road. She survived.
I mentioned this to George; he simply said that was much better than them flying around in circles, not doing much. I think he was just saying that if you want decent rollers, you have to accept the odd one will be bump or roll down.
So far, then, no great surprises.
They come in some very pleasant patterns - the bulk of which have white flights, bald/badges and the odd one will have quite a bit of body white - say, with just a saddle-back. The colours are all the standard combinations of blue and red, with plenty of checks and mealies and the odd self. I don't have a single grizzle.
I've just bred about 20 in the last couple of months and there's no surprises - they all look like variations of their parents.
They're bit skittish - so, not very tame. As youngsters, they settle pretty easily and seem to have good homing ability. I say this because I see them fly not up, but outwards - they look like dots in the distance, but they come safely home.
They're not big birds. Probably medium.
They're useless at breeding until at least 7 months; even then, it's a bit iffy. Now that mine are 11 months old, they're doing much better with the whole parent thing and are churning youngsters out very regularly.
That's as much as I can think of for now.
shaun
|
Ally Mac
96 posts
Apr 05, 2006
12:35 PM
|
Hi again Shaun.
I got into a rut last year with my birds flying low.
I think it came about due to flying them in stiff breezes, unfortunately the wind hardly sopped blowing last year.
I got round it by putting them a few at a time with older birds till they were all in and flying a good height, then started pulling the older birds. Seemed to work. I am a bit more careful when there is a wind now. Daves youngsters seem to be sticking at a good height now and doing the 40 mins.
Al.
|
trevsta65
9 posts
Apr 06, 2006
1:25 AM
|
thanks 4 the info shaun much appreciated. cheers,trev
|
Velo99
339 posts
Apr 06, 2006
5:00 AM
|
Shaun,
Try feeding a little popcorn to get em up a bit higher. Perhaps some oilier fatty seeds. I sometimes give mine a few kernels of popcorn when they have been in to keep them from bumping.
mtc
v99
|
Shaun
334 posts
Apr 06, 2006
5:42 AM
|
I've tried all that, Kenny, to no good effect. If they get more or richer food, they tend to fly in circles and go seldom. I've learned that low flying is a longstanding feature of Mason birds and one of the reasons some people import them - to bring their own strain down a bit, or to cross the strains to aim for a compromise height. George Mason has lived in the same place for decades and that location is seemingly why his birds fly low. As soon as he releases the birds, there's a big drop off, a sort of basin. It means that although they may only reach the height of a couple of houses, whilst flying above the basin, they're actually quite a way off the ground. This suits George fine, but many of us with more standard topography, are fighting that low-flying tendency of the Mason rollers. What I aim to do when flying out the load of youngsters I'm breeding, is to keep a close eye on those which might have more of a hankering to get up a bit and focus around those. It would be useless me competing with what I have, as they could be rolling merrily behind the trees and no judge would be able to see them to score.
It's going to be a long haul, but they're otherwise good birds, so I have to be patient.
Well done on your fly, by the way, Kenny.
Shaun
|
STARFIRE
28 posts
Apr 08, 2006
6:27 PM
|
Hi Shaun;
Low flying is a lot of times caused by one lazy bird.Do you have any that are always on the bottom of the bunch and even if the others try to go up a bit,this one will stay low?
If you notice this(I'm not saying this is the case,but it could be)You need to take this bird or birds out of the bunch.I've had this happen to mine a few times and once you take them out you will see a great improvement.These birds always seem to be looking at the loft,like they want to land.Just something to think about.My birds never have trouble flying low,they want to go too high.
----------
STARFIRE
Stan Arnold
|
fhtfire
412 posts
Apr 08, 2006
8:26 PM
|
Good post Stan...I have found that one bird can screw up a good kit. I had to pull a bird a week ago...because of that very reason....the kit ended up going up and leaving him behind for just a bit...I pulled that bird..I pulled it all right if you kow what I mean..and the kit flew great the next time.
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Shaun
343 posts
Apr 09, 2006
2:03 PM
|
I've tried eliminating each and every bird on a given day, to see if there's any particular culprit, but it hasn't made a blind bit of difference. I have spent some time investigating this low-flying tendency and I've learned that it's simply the way of Mason birds - they've been flying that way for a long, long time. Equally, I'm reminded that other families are the opposite and will fly way too high, with all the problems that this can also bring. On balance, I think I prefer mine down lower where I can see their action, rather than pinning out up into the clouds.
Actually, it's exactly a year since I first got back into rollers. Quickly frustrated with the first batch I obtained (this was before all the Masons I got), I contacted Graham Dexter (author of Winners with Spinners and our national roller club president). We were discussing my getting some better stock and he told me that a lot depended on the type of roller I liked. I said I hadn't seen any in thirty years, so give me a clue as to what's out there!
So, he gave me the lowdown on all the major English flyers' birds and the problems that could be found with them. He willingly conceded that his tended to go seldom with age. Someone else's birds tended to fly too high and pin out. Then there were the birds which had a habit of bumping or even rolling down on release.
George Mason? Well, his young birds could take time to get going as youngsters.... and once in the air they tended to fly low.
So, fast forward a year and I've certainly experienced the low flying of my Masons. At present, with lots of youngsters being churned out, I'm also seeing how difficult it is to get them flying. I've been through this before, with last year's youngsters, so I'm not as scared about losing them as I was then. At present, I give them a few days of sitting around then I encourage them up with the odd scare - a sudden movement of a broom, for example. This gets them doing little flits around the garden, but not much else.
Stage 2 is where I scare the crap out of them with a big flag. If they try to land, I keep on waving at them, making them circle. It's a risky and not very elegant strategy, but it works. Mason youngsters just don't want to fly properly as squeakers, unless you make them.
Today, I was particularly exasperated and went a bit further. It was a beautiful day; the wind had dropped and the sun was shining. Out came the youngsters - about 6 to 8 weeks old. They started to sunbathe. Naturally, they were hungry, so they kept coming to the ground to peck about. I'm bored and irritated. I toss a broom into the air to get them off the ground. A couple of birds go up, do a circle of the garden, then land. Jeez, these are a pain. I then extend my fishing pole to its full 8 yards, with its big black flag on the end and waft it at them. This scares the whole lot, so up they go, here, there and everywhere, like a swarm of wasps. However, within a short time they've all landed again. I flag them up once more, only this time I keep the flag flying; if any bird attempts to land, I poke the flag up its arse. I keep doing this each time they circle and try to land. Finally, they get the hint: "So, he wants us to fly, then." I finally get about five minutes out them, then I let them land.
The next stage is where it gets better and this shouldn't be long. They finally realise they actually like flying and they start to kit. At around three months, most are rolling well, with stability. Some of them will roll for a good two seconds, with splending velocity and, should you be viewing from the side, you might well see the infamous hole.
So, yes, Mason birds do tend to fly low and can take some time to get going as youngsters. However, once they're firmly on the wing, the results are worth waiting for.
Shaun
|
Riaan
49 posts
Apr 10, 2006
10:30 PM
|
Hi Shawn.
You get MASONS and u get MASONS.It is so nice to hear that i got the right ones. My birds also fly low,take three months to com on and as babies they are more active that grown up.They kit awersome and have good home ability(and i stay in another country)I think as humans we are over anxious with MASONS they take a bit longer to go to the air and is not lazy.I stay on a 2000m2 property so i take then to the far end of the property and make them fly back to the loft.Hope to see you with the South Africa and England fly.
Your friend in the sport .
Riaan
Last Edited by Riaan on Apr 10, 2006 10:31 PM
|
Shaun
345 posts
Apr 11, 2006
4:10 AM
|
Hello, Riaan, haven't seen you on here for a while. It seems you have the real deal - for better or for worse! I know that many import Masons, then cross them with others, the thinking being that good rollers which fly rather low can be combined with others that maybe fly too high. Fair dos - the same thing has crossed my mind as a future project. Didn't I read that you were going to attempt something similar, or was that someone else?
Shaun
|
J_Star
387 posts
Apr 11, 2006
4:27 AM
|
You will end up with some youngsters that fly high and some that fly low but never in between. It is not like spinning deep vs. shallow to get the in between ones. Try cutting the protein intake down and give more carbohidrate. And yes, you have to give it at least 5 days before you determine if it is working or not. things just don't happen over night.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Apr 11, 2006 7:45 AM
|
Riaan
50 posts
Apr 11, 2006
7:50 AM
|
Hi Guys,
I only fly birds that have been crossed with my inbred family. Its a total new family al together. Characteristics include:
They fly low,
Begin to roll at 3 months,
Not all of them roll, but the ones that don't hover in the air until the proper rollers are back in the kit.
They are much deeper 1,8 to 2 seconds which is allot deeper than before. As babies I battle to keep them in the air as they are very active.
You're friend in the Sport.
Riaan
|
Steve_uk
3 posts
Dec 30, 2006
9:37 AM
|
This thread suprises me i fly georges pigeons and my birds dont fly low at all i dont no were people get this idea that its a trait of this breed its down to location.
Steve
|
W@yne
138 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:18 AM
|
Good honest post shaun i used to have georges birds .You described them very accurate. Like ste said ive been to his house and they pin out strange but true. I too struggled with the height thing.
|
Steve_uk
6 posts
Dec 30, 2006
10:22 AM
|
I've flown goerges birds in 4 different locations with no trouble at all and the birds are from george pure.
|
Shaun
389 posts
Dec 30, 2006
11:24 AM
|
This thread has suddenly resurrected itself 8 months after it last ended. During the intervening period, I've had people from South Africa and Australia relate their experiences of Mason birds to me. I thought I might add a little bit more of my own experience with them, having bred and flown about 70 youngsters this year since I last posted on this subject.
I have heard from others who have experienced no problems with low flying - but I've heard from many more who have. So, let's just say the jury's still out on that one. I think location probably does play a big part. Mine are flying at a better height than they used to, but it didn't seem to come naturally to them.
Looking at the strain generally, the South Africans, in particular, imported Mason birds in numbers but didn't find them easy to handle - "too full of roll" is a typical comment. They crossed them with their own indigenous stock, for a more balanced roller.
If I remember rightly, there have been posts on this forum intimating that there's no such thing as easy or difficult families to manage. I would beg to differ - I think Mason birds are tricky indeed and there seems to be far more failures than successes with this particular strain. I've often read about people who started with Mason birds, couldn't get what they wanted from them, so moved on to pastures new. I should say that the thought has crossed my mind more than once!
However, I have it on good authority, that one of the most renowned roller flyers on the planet - Heine Bijker - has a Mason line within his world class stock. It suggests they need an experienced and patient handler to get the best out of them.
I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has had tangible success from their own Mason birds, which they are sure have not been crossed with any other strain.
From my own observations, Masons are a superb strain of Birmingham roller - a wonderful representation of the breed. But, as for any other roller family, the really good ones only show up in small numbers.
Shaun
|
trevsta65
49 posts
Dec 30, 2006
4:53 PM
|
great post shaun i am still learning as i go how to deal with my birds and having a great time doing so.some days are better than others but thats life. my birds i have in the air at the moment are all this years birds and are coming along great occasionally i have to wave them up with the flag .but they have seemed to have gotten the idea i havent switched them from pigeon mix yet as they only about 5 months old do you think i should do it now or wait another month before i do. and i am still feeding them quiet a bit. cheers trev
|
Shaun
392 posts
Dec 31, 2006
12:52 AM
|
Trev, I'm not sure if you actually did get Mason birds. If it's these you're talking about, then I don't think feeding them a mix (peas etc) is a good idea once they get beyond about 3 months old, as that's when I see them coming into the roll and I want more control over them.
I found many of my youngsters were idle buggers and didn't want to fly - or if they did, they wanted to land early. I experimented with the feed, but nothing would make them really get up and go. I had a flag up their arses many times and they frustrated the hell out of me. I culled loads of them. I had to box them up and release them to get them to really rise up. Once they did that they seemed to enjoy the experience and slowly but surely I didn't have to intervene so much. As they got older I had less and less of a problem with low flying.
Shaun
|
W@yne
140 posts
Dec 31, 2006
1:05 AM
|
George Mason birds are a very high maintenance birds to keep.Myself they are a very hard bird to work with especially a newbie starting off. I found as youngsters they was very lazy and didnt want to fly at times i was at my witts end with um throwing things at um to get um to fly lol(cost me a small fortune in water baloons lmao) then they would land a few streets away.But when they get to yearlings they seem to be a lot easier to manage settle down height better wanting to fly ect.All i can say is hang in there guys and dont let it put you off. If you can manage Georges birds then you can manage any family of birds.No one can fly Mason birds like the man himself i have seen some great birds fly at Georges home.
Best of luck guys
regards
W@yne uk
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2006 3:11 AM
|
luis
79 posts
Dec 31, 2006
1:18 AM
|
Dam Wayne i must have some Mason in my bloodlines cause my young birds sure don't seem to want to fly much right now.The only time they get cracking is when the hawks show up!!
|
nicksiders
1097 posts
Dec 31, 2006
1:46 AM
|
luis,
Don't you ever sleep?
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
Ally Mac
137 posts
Dec 31, 2006
3:00 AM
|
Hi Shaun.
Good to see tour getting there. How did you find the percentages of good birds were with the original kit you bred from, or is it still a bit early.
Are you doing anything with the Moseley's this year. I am ready to put down about 10 pair but as they are pretty much unflown it's going to be another experimental year.
Like you I had a bit of bother getting the birds to a good height etc but I am sure that was down to me and the time I could devot to them. Anyway, got them going regular now and really starting to see some progress, nothing particularly deep but some good speed and style. The kit I am flying is around the 6 month so there is time enough for them.
Hope all is well.
Al.
|
Shaun
393 posts
Dec 31, 2006
8:36 AM
|
Wayne, you're quite right - Masons aren't for the novice. As youngsters, they're a pain in the arse and the learning curve for the handler is significant. However, I would be reluctant to give mine up now because I've learned a lot and am starting to understand them a bit more. For me, their big advantage is that you start to see the promising ones quite early on - about three months. With the Moseley birds I'm still waiting for them to roll at six months.
Which brings me to Ally's question. Hi, mate, how you doing? Because I've bred purely from youngsters, I've not seem many of their offspring which are truly good - probably half a dozen in all. Even they have faults, so it remains a work in progress.
The Moseleys I bred are still tail-riding whilst the Masons are rolling, so I'm not able to evaluate the latter yet. I should fly them separately really, but I don't have enough lofts.
I'm being plagued by sparrowhawks at the moment and it's making me seriously consider whether it's all worth it. I've lost loads of birds and it appears there's nothing I can do to stop them. They jump out from trees and bushes and they're lightning fast. They're not scared of humans, so I'm constantly seeing a hawk with my bird in its clutches on the ground just yards from where I'm standing. They're protected by law and I live in an urban area, so I can't wield a rifle willy nilly. Even if I wanted to, they're far too quick to get a shot at. They're making roller life pretty miserable and they're here all year round. I've yet to see the peregrine, which most UK roller guys seem to have a problem with, but my dear common garden sparrowhawk is enough.
It makes me laugh when I read internet forums about twitchers observing their songbirds in the garden. They shit themselves when they see some little beauty being snatched from their bird table by a sparrowhawk, then they watch the gory spectacle as0 the doomed bird has its feathers plucked. Often, when the sparrowhawk begins its meal the songbird is still alive.
1000 songbirds a year are necessary to keep one poxy sparrowhawk alive - or about 300 rollers!
Shaun
|
luis
80 posts
Dec 31, 2006
5:50 PM
|
Wayne i'm a vampire.Notice i don't post anything till after dark.Can't be up during daytime hours..........ha,ha,ha..........
|
155
377 posts
May 02, 2008
8:13 PM
|
MASON BIRD ARE SOME GOOD BIRDS THAT WORK GOOD FOR ME...
|
smoke747
1000 posts
May 03, 2008
1:01 AM
|
I was thinking about checking out some Mason birds.
smoke747
----------
Keith London
ICRC
|
DeepSpinLofts
796 posts
May 25, 2008
3:12 AM
|
Shaun says this above:
===> "the thinking being that good rollers which fly rather low can be combined with others that maybe fly too high. Fair dos - the same thing has crossed my mind as a future project."
Hmm..... interesting.
Can't recall where I've heard it or read it.... but roller pigeons flight times, wing beats and kitting capabilities/styles might have something to do with their wing sizes. Some families of rolling pigeons have thinner wings than others.... and then still some birds are smaller and have less weight to push.
QUESTION: Can someone elaborate?
{P.S.} I hear you Keith. Those Masons do sound like the real thing.
As for myself... I'm looking to get me some birds from the London bloodline. I hear they are good aerial performers.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on May 25, 2008 3:30 AM
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
1638 posts
May 25, 2008
8:54 AM
|
Masons are hard working birds excellent parents.....
I aquired 2 pr from ohio....coming down from ellis...
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
DeepSpinLofts
798 posts
May 25, 2008
12:53 PM
|
Hi Rudy....
Can you post a few pictures of those Mason birds buddy?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
rollerpigeon1963
256 posts
May 25, 2008
2:08 PM
|
Hey Guys,
I'm taking a break in cooking today and wanted to show off my Masons also. I will leave the link below so it wount take uo a lot of space on Tony's site. Hope you like them! Hey cuz got some photos of the loaded down smoker I'll post for you after while.
Thanks Brian Middaugh
http://rollerpigeon1963.tripod.com/rollers.htm
Just copy and paste this, and then click Mason.
http://rollerpigeon1963.tripod.com/
|
rollerpigeon1963
260 posts
May 26, 2008
4:41 PM
|
Hey Rudy,
I posted a few photos of the young birds I'm flying. Here is a direct link to it just copy and paste it.
Thanks Brian
http://rollerpigeon1963.tripod.com/rollers.htm
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2634 posts
Jun 20, 2009
12:23 PM
|
.
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|
RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2659 posts
Jul 04, 2009
9:28 PM
|
.
----------
RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
|