C.J.
110 posts
Apr 18, 2006
4:53 PM
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I had a student come up to me today and say that he was given some rollers. They have all been locked in for two years. Some of them are two years some are a year and a half and others are way older. The question I pose is this. Will any of these birds actually roll again even if they are from quality stock? After two tears will the old birds actually begin to roll again? The guy that gave them was old and couldn't remember which birds were good and which weren't. Would I just be better off to give him new birds. I am supposed to go look at them this weekend. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks
C.J.
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Velo99
376 posts
Apr 18, 2006
5:15 PM
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CJ,
Personally I would just take a look,then probably breed what he has. Worst that could happen is they could be stiffs. If the old man was breeding from these birds...Use your roller prowess to pair up the birds. We hear stories all of the time about some guy let the fosters raise a pair and they came out smoking....
yits
v99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
475 posts
Apr 18, 2006
5:16 PM
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So let me get this straight, the birds are between 1.5 and 2 years of age, but they have been locked up for 2 years? Something doesn't jive there CJ..lol.
Assuming the birds were actually flown into the roll, then it is possible for them to be re-conditioned and some will get back with the program again over time. The problem this young man will have is that like any new fancier, they want to see instant results. They believe all rollers are supposed to do what good rollers do and do it all of the time. With no experience with flying rollers, I would say this fellow will become pretty upset when the birds don't want to fly and he can't figure out why. It will be difficult for him to understand how to manage them while having lots of patience in the process. He would need a good understanding that some will just not do what good rollers should do while a few might show him, over time, what rollers are supposed to do.
Personally, I'd just use them for fosters and get some good breeders to breed his own. OR, get a kit of young ones he can train from the start and learn in the process. Something like what you describe is extremely challenging for even veteran flyers with little patience. This poor lad would be living in a world of total confusion, and calling you every day asking you why they are doing what they are doing...lol.
I would believe your generous offer would be a much better deal.
Brian.
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C.J.
111 posts
Apr 18, 2006
6:16 PM
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This old timer I knew from a long time ago. He has been ill for the past two years and he isnt expected to make it. His family kept the birds going to give him something to look forward to. But now he wanted this kd and some others to have them. Some have bands that are anywhere from 1,5 to 2 years. The guy says they weren't flown just sat in the aviary. Then there is ten birds that are over two who are attemptin to rolll by puling the wings up but not actually rolling. Now these older birds have been out about two days. He has had the 1.5 and 2 year old birds out for about three weeks they also are pulling the wings up but not into a spin. I have not seen them yet but this is what I am told. I haven't broyght new birds into my loft in so long I am nopt sure what will happen with them. I don't want to lose this kids interest but I also don't want to have him get rid of these birds if they will actually roll. He is also keen if the young will roll. The other problem is this guy was a really good roler guy in his time but these birds have been breeding on their own for the past year or two. Will the roll come back in the older birds. I am going to try to get over some time this week instead of the weekend and I will keep you posted. McCorick you are right he does call a lot. But he was really close to this guy. I am wondering if he breeds a kit of young from these will he see results from the young?
C.J.
Last Edited by C.J. on Apr 18, 2006 6:24 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
476 posts
Apr 18, 2006
8:06 PM
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Sure, that could be an option for him as even KH mentioned. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for birds that have never been out in two years to start rolling. Any bird that was into the roll before being locked up stands a chance of returning to glory after a long period of conditioning them.
This is a lot of why you will hear fanciers repeat it over and over again to get those babies in the kit boxes and on the wing as soon as possible. I firmly believe that what makes a good roller is not only his genetic inheritance for performance, but the conditioning prior to the development of the roll stimulus. A bird which would have come into the roll by six months after being routinely flown may never come into the roll if never flown for two years. It is very important for the muscles to develop properly along with mental maturing while the roll is begining to develop in the bird.
Of course this is looking at it with much scrutiny. If the boy likes the birds he has gotten and is satisfied with just watching them fly around, whether they eventually perform or not, in the end for that lad, that is all that really matters.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Apr 18, 2006 8:07 PM
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C.J.
113 posts
Apr 19, 2006
4:09 AM
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No he's not satisfied to just watch them fly around. He comes to my house and wants to know if his will ever do this. he is even building nesting pens. His enthusiasm reminds me of how excited a young person can get. He is like a sponge. i just want to make sure that he is getting lots of the right stuff.
C.J.
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Velo99
377 posts
Apr 19, 2006
4:56 AM
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CJ
I would be really curious as to what these birds have in the genes. Your student can have chicks in the air in just two months.I feel this approach might curb his enthusiasm just a touch so you can teach him from the egg on out.
I agree with Brian that these birds might not roll but they can damn sure breed.If he doesn`t explode before the chicks can fly. lol
This would change the focus from performers to breeders, more than likely a huge success.
mtc
v99
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J_Star
398 posts
Apr 19, 2006
5:03 AM
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This old man gave this lad some of his birds because he wanted a good home for his beloved birds before he leave us. This lad outta keep those birds respecting the old man wishes. Use them as breeders for one season and determine what produce for him. If the outcome is good and the offspring are good then he is happy. If not, he will use them as fosters for his future birds. For the time being you can give him or sell him few pairs that will show him immediate spin while he is breeding his older birds. Then he can go from there...
Jay
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C.J.
114 posts
Apr 19, 2006
5:42 AM
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J Star my plan is to give him someof my young birds, if his birds don't work out but yes you are right this guy did want the birds to go to some young guy. This kid was his neighbor and grew up next door. He was over there asking questions from a young age. He is really keen on learning about rollers. I have visited with this guy and he wants me to keep an eye on him. Out of respect and a genuine like for this kid I will help him. I just don't want to have him dump these birds in haste. It would be a shame to lose the fellows lifew mission in haste. I am going over tonight so I will keep you all posted. Thanks for all of the productive comments. I hope I can steer the young fellow in the right direction.
C.J.
Last Edited by C.J. on Apr 19, 2006 5:44 AM
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RB&R
8 posts
Apr 19, 2006
8:13 AM
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there is a blue check hen in K. Billing kit for eight long years and still spin 40ft. they may stop spin when they're old, just like human, do u think 80 yrs. old can run a mile in 6 minutes. well, old doesn't really matter since we don't have any evidence to prove when is the time for a pigeon to stop rolling. in some case old pigeon still roll good as those young birds. just my opinion.
andrew
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C.J.
121 posts
Apr 19, 2006
3:30 PM
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RB&r the question wasn't how long until they lose the roll.
The question was if birds are locked down and never fly will they ever roll. Or if they are locked up for years and then let out will they roll angain. I have raised birds for over 25 years and am aware that old birds roll. I have a bird 12 years old that will still amaze you.
C.J.
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C.J.
125 posts
Apr 21, 2006
6:09 AM
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O.K. so I went to look at these birds last night. He has 36 birds in total. They are smaller type rollers and they all seem really healthy. When he had them out I would say about one third of them just sat on the roof. They are clearly out of shape. No matter how much he tried to get them up they wouldn't go. Then there was the other two thirds. I counted twelve birds that actually flew together and attempted to begin a spin. By attempting to spin I mean pulling up there wings but not actually being able to get into the roll. We talked for a long while until my wife threatened me with a divorce. I gave him some options. I praised him for his interest and what he had done with my instructions on building his loft. I told him if he wanted I would give him a kit of young birds and he could do what he wanted to with the other birds. Or we could pick out the birds that are felt to have potential and breed from them and se what we get. Because they are from a family that usede to be hot we may get results. He definitely didn't want to scrap these birds. He is having trouble coping with the idea of losing his mentor but he also wants to keep birds that roll. so he made a compromise. He will breed from the selected pairs and if by the spring there aren't quality results he will take the kit I am going to raise for him. I will keep them over the winter and train them in the spring if he decides he wants them then he has a fresh start. Now the question is which birds do we keep. i am thinking that the roof sitters should be gone. also the ones that showed no roll potential at all. There is an acception to this rule. There is a pair in this bunch that I feel just have something. They are an older pair of smaller size and seeing as we are taking a chance on all of them We have nothing to lose. Any input would be helpful
Thanks in advance
C.J.
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