Cody
6 posts
Apr 19, 2006
7:54 AM
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hi I heard about hard, mediam and soft.
How can you tell if they are either one. I
dont know so my first guest is that is it by
color.
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upcd
240 posts
Apr 19, 2006
9:01 AM
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Are you talking about feather texture? If so Dom. colors are hard feathered. Blue, black, ash And Ress. colors can be soft. white, red, yellow, cream, dun, silver etc. this my guess. Anyone esle want to take a go at it?
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nicksiders
533 posts
Apr 19, 2006
12:13 PM
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ucpd pretty well nailed it. I would consider meduim to be the dominate colors that are pied....just my opinion.
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Mount Airy Lofts
197 posts
Apr 19, 2006
1:09 PM
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I judge a bird as hard or soft by how tightly packed their feathers are. It doesn't matter if they are white, black, blue, red, rec., etc. A tight feathered bird is a hard feathered bird. Altho if you are talking about hard or soft colors then Blue, Spread, and Ash Red would be considered in my books as hard colors. Rec. Reds, Grizzles, and Dilutes would be considered soft.
Just because a bird is of soft colors doesn't necessary mean it will also be soft feathered. Soft colors can be hard feathered or Soft feathered and vice versa. I my books, it is all in how tight the feathers. Loose feathering usually means soft feathered.
Just how I rate my birds,
Thor
Here is a Black Grizzle Hen I would consider soft feathered
Soft feathered birds will appear bigger then what they really are due to loose feathering. They also lack the shine.
Here is a Black Grizzle Hen I would consider hard feathered
Both are 1997 bred and have put out good eggs this year.
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Velo99
378 posts
Apr 19, 2006
4:10 PM
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Lemme add this.
Correct me if I am wrong. I was discussing with a fellow fancier the other day about color on new squeaks. I have a pair of red check squeaks with white flights. I feel because of the wild type(grey)butt and four tailfeathers this a is a red check versus a recessive red bird,therefore a hard color. I also noticed my rec reds are all hens. Any correlations here?
mtc
v99
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motherlodelofts
735 posts
Apr 20, 2006
9:09 PM
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It evolves around charactor following hard and soft colors, does not allways hold true thogh and depends on the family.
Scott
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scotty
30 posts
Apr 21, 2006
12:17 AM
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I prefer hard feathering generaly,but I can't deny a softer feathered performer that can ripp some nice tight rolls.My muffed rollers,generaly have a softer feathering.If the bird can perform that is my focus.Color dosen't matter mutch to me either.It's all in there performance with my strain's.-Scotty
Last Edited by scotty on Apr 21, 2006 6:38 AM
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nicksiders
537 posts
Apr 21, 2006
1:57 PM
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I have found that with my family of rollers the better performers seem to be on the soft side...........what keeps coming to my mind is I read an article written by one of the better breeders that your bird should feel kinda like a wadded up T-shirt in the hand. Can't remember who said it, but it pretty well describes my better spinners.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Apr 21, 2006 1:58 PM
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Cody
7 posts
Apr 21, 2006
10:37 PM
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thank guy. so what best is that i breed soft to hard.
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Safire
31 posts
Apr 24, 2006
2:16 PM
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So if one is to breed a hard feather bird with another hard feather bird and both are soft colored, and both rolled and spin at good velocity and depth(20-30)feet, what would be the outcome of the youngs performance? Too stiff or to hot? I am using Thors terms for color and feather because I do see some soft color birds with tight feathers(hard feathers). I have not much experience in this also and would like to know.
rolling in the hobby
George
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Mount Airy Lofts
199 posts
Apr 24, 2006
9:12 PM
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George,
If you have access to David D. Kowalski's first book... you will see him note a Light Tort Hen that he termed to have tight feathers. From the picture, you can clearly see the feathers being very compacted. You do and will get such white birds with good tight feathers. Altho the majority will be found on hard colors such as Ash Red or Blues... it isn't all ways true. As in rollers, nothing is absolute.
Just take head shape... all head shapes can roll. So can call body shapes. In any selection, it all depends if you have used the right birds. You can not go wrong if you select the very best. Altho, it helps to balance such things as colors, factors, eyes, etc.
I have found that you can know nothing but performance and still do just as well with your birds if you kept on selecting the best there is to continue your program.
A veteran flier here told me not too long ago that he was told to always strive to upgrade what you have. It made a world of sense when you really think about it. It all starts and ends in the breeding pen.
If for some reason, you are not seeing an improvement, you must of done something wrong and some back tracking will be needed to solve the problem. Altho, improvement has it limitations... you can only improve on what is there. If you have quality birds, most likely the sky is the limit.
On the same note as your post, if I was to pair up two grizzles together... I would like atleast one of them to be what I refer to hard featherings (tightly packed feathers).
Thor
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on Apr 24, 2006 9:13 PM
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merced guy
56 posts
Apr 24, 2006
10:41 PM
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thor,
I go along with your concept of hard and soft feathers too. Tight compacted feathers I call hard and loose fluffy featherings, soft. At first I thougt color was a factor, but not anymore. is it still? Some guys prefer hard, while others, soft. Some guys like what's in between. often times you can test the strenght of the quills by bending the flight feathers and other times just by the whole appearance of the brid or by handling it.
What do you guys prefer? or does it not matter.
And for Verterans guys, if you guys can give some pointers, what do you see as it contributes to the spin or roll of the bird? with soft and hard feather. Let's say that hypothetically, the bird is a good roller, not a cull.
thanks in advance,
thong
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Safire
35 posts
May 01, 2006
9:02 AM
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Is it possible to have a all white b roller with hard feathers?
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Mount Airy Lofts
206 posts
May 01, 2006
7:40 PM
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Yes, why not. All the pure whites I have seen in my family are just very light Red Grizzles. Some will have a red/lavender feather or two as young birds and molt out completely white while others are born pure whites. If there are compactly feathered Grizzles, why is pure whites (the ones I have seen and flown) any different. I don't know much about the Pure whites found in Racing Homers but the ones I have seen in my family are bred from Grizzles. Barely would they breed true (Pure whites breeding more pure whites). Then again, if one was to pair them up for color alone, maybe. Never tried it and don't expect to any time soon.
Thor
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