Double D
200 posts
May 01, 2006
12:48 PM
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I just split one pair up yesterday and put a new hen on this cock. I know part of the process is that the cock pretty much beats the crap out of the hen but I have never had it look this bad. She's missing feathers and the back and sides of her neck just below her head are all red, appears to be covered in blood. Have you guys seen cocks do that much damage while pairing up with a hen? I'm afraid he might hurt her bad and I could lose her. I appreciate the input. Thanks!
Darin
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C.J.
137 posts
May 01, 2006
1:01 PM
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Are you 100% sure the bird you put with him is a hen?
I haven't had much luck with splitting them and immediately giving them a new partner. I would have seperated them for a few days then tried a new hen. Are yyou sure the old pair wasn't in the middle of remating. Was there any young in the old pairs cages?
There are lots of variables here that need to be answered.
C.J.
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Double D
201 posts
May 01, 2006
1:08 PM
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I'm sure she's a hen because she's laid eggs already. The pair I broke up most likely was in the middle of breeding another round of eggs as just yesterday I weaned some 21 day old babies from that pair. Should I have not put them together that quickly? Should I separate them now? C.J. your response makes it sound as if the reaction of this cock is not normal. I've seen the cocks attack the back of the hen's head with all my pairs when I first put them together, it just wasn't this bad. What do you think? Thanks!
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on May 01, 2006 1:09 PM
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Double D
202 posts
May 01, 2006
1:11 PM
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I should add he mated with her yesterday, about 3 or 4 times in the first little while. He seemed to take right to her. I knew this part was coming I just didn't think it would be this brutal.
Darin
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Mount Airy Lofts
204 posts
May 01, 2006
3:52 PM
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Yes, I have seen this happen before. All the cock is doing is protecting his pen. That is why it is a good idea to leave a milk gallon or a perch of some kind for the new hen to hang about until she comes too.
Thor
P.S. I pair my birds up the same day I seperate them from their old mates. It takes about two or so days of the cock coaxsing the new hen but usually by the third day, all is paired up.
P.S.S. A note : I pair all my birds in an individual pen. That is why I mentioned the Milk Gallon idea. All the Milk Gallons I use have a stopper on top to stop any birds from perching there, thrus spoiling the feed/water. Altho when pairing up new birds, I would remove the stopper so the hen can perch up there until it is safe to hang about with the cock in the pen. Like I mention, I usually pair them up right away with out any problems.
I have had hens in the past with shaved heads and beat up/bloodly necks. Some cocks are just relentless and have been known to kill intruders if given the chance. I don't have this problem any more because I pair and breed out of individual pens. That and I select away from very aggressive birds.
Last Edited by Mount Airy Lofts on May 01, 2006 7:32 PM
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C.J.
138 posts
May 01, 2006
6:12 PM
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Its not normal for him to make her bleed badly. My point was that if he was thinking he was protecting his domain from a tresspasser then that is why he abused her. As I said before I would have removed him a couple of days (if he is an agressive cock) before introducing the new hen. Then I would have placed him in her pen not the other way around. This tends to knock some of the steam out of an agressive cock. And yes you will see the cocks pecking at the back of the hens head but not to the point of hurting them badly. It their way of testing the waters. I was was not suggesting anything at the point of my first post. I was just trying to get more information. Some posts that are asking for assistance tend to be vague so I was probing for clarification.
C.J.
Last Edited by C.J. on May 01, 2006 6:17 PM
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Double D
203 posts
May 01, 2006
8:32 PM
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Thanks C.J., everything you said makes sense. I'm still new at this and if I would have known, I'd have done just what you said, give him a few days alone and then introduce him into her cage, not like I did it. You can be sure I won't make that mistake again. I removed her before I went back to work from lunch. I did as suggested tonight and put a small perch that only a single bird could get on. As soon as I put her in the cage, (I also breed in individual cages), he didn't seem so aggressive towards her and appeared to try to be making up a couple of times. I went out to check on them a few moments ago just to make sure everything was alright and she was up on the perch. I hope they can work this out and breed.
I actually broke this cock up from his original mate because I was tired of them fighting all the time and stomping all over the baby birds in the process. The hen didn't like to let the cock sit the nest. I'd sometimes remove her during the day and then put her back in when I got home from work. After two or three days of this things seemed to settle down but never completely. They never would get along very well.
I put this new hen with the cock as I really like her on the perch. She is a very typey bird and I've never mated her so I wanted to see what she could produce. She looks like crap now. I hope she heals up okay and the feathers grow back as she really was a beautiful bird.
That particular cock is one of the more aggresive cocks I have and this new hen is really a calm bird and not aggressive at all. That's probably why he beat her up so bad, she wouldn't fight back. I was also thinking that given her termperment, she would be more willing to let the cock do his part in raising the young. I hope this experience hasn't tramatized her. I guess I'll know in the next couple weeks.
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on May 01, 2006 8:37 PM
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fhtfire
431 posts
May 01, 2006
9:20 PM
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Double D
I have found that the matings go real smooth if you seperate them for about 3 days.....then put the new birds together....the cock by them has accepted that his mate is gone and will want to move on...the hen will except the same...and will squat at the drop of a hat..LOL!! I usually give a little time for mourning and then they rock and roll with little fighting.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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katyroller
18 posts
May 01, 2006
9:31 PM
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When pairing new birds, I like to make sure the pen is large enough and has enough perches for the hen to escape an overly aggressive cock. When a cock gets too aggressive I will seperate him from the other birds for several days, kind of like a time out for rough play. If this cock is that aggressive you may want to reconsider breeding from him because his offspring may turn out like him.
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upcd
244 posts
May 02, 2006
3:42 AM
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Ok seperate her and treat with triple antibotic ontiment on the wound and electrolye in the water. When healed try agian. With perch or way of escape for the hen.
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Opinionated Blowhard
34 posts
May 02, 2006
5:40 AM
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The only time I've ever seen this happen is when the fancier is fool enough to try and re-mate a cock on a new hen before the cock realizes that he's no longer mated on his previous hen, or before his youngsters are gone from the nest. Kevin
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Double D
204 posts
May 02, 2006
6:17 PM
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Thinking the worst was past and having added a perch for the hen in the cage, I put them together yesterday as mentioned. Today I came home to find her featherless from the base of the neck to the top of the head and her flesh opened and bloody. I feel terrible. I can't quite tell if she's just really tired or if she's lost enough blood that she's become weak. I'll be surprised if she survives and if she does, I doubt feathers will ever grow in that area again. I obviously didn't handle this well and I have learned from this decision. Inexperience can cost you. That cock's aggressiveness cost him more, I culled him today. While there may be some that say it was not the cock's fault, he was just doing what he should instintively do. That may be true but I don't want those instincts in my loft. He's been one of the cocky cocks I learned about a few months ago since I got him. I kept him and bred him because I didn't have many pairs and wanted to breed the largest number of birds as quickly as possible. In my family, I don't need what he brings and Scott and Paul were right, cocky cocks are more problem than they are worth. Problem solved. I look at that poor hen and what she went through because I didn't know better and I feel like &%@$. All I can do is learn from this and move on.
Darin
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C.J.
141 posts
May 02, 2006
7:04 PM
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Darin Don't beat yourself up. Anyone who comes on here and acts like they haven't lost birds to inexperience is full of crap. It is a shame if you have to lose her but if you learn from this then that is all that matters. Keep asking the questions we will keep answering them. I had a cock bird once that would sneak into other nests an decapitate the young he also became extinct. Just remember how he acted with his young and let it be a warning sign for future birds. Trust the instinct of your hens maybe his hen not letting him set on the young was a sign that she new he was upo to no good.
Remember what doesn't kill you makes you a better roller guy.
C.J.
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Mount Airy Lofts
208 posts
May 02, 2006
7:33 PM
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Darin,
I highly doubt she will die. As I had worst done to my birds from bird's of prey then any cock ever did to another pigeon. Usually if the bird is young and healthy, it should rebound quite quick and all should be back to normal in a month or two. Hope this is the case for your hen.
Some times we use birds not to our ideals. Many of these times, it makes it worst. We live and learn.
Remember, qualities we put in now will be our future stock. Nothing wrong with being picky and strict in your breeding program.
What I find wierd is that the hen still got beat up even with the safety of a perch. That must of been one heck of a mean bird.
Have you ever considered that the pair just wasn't meant to be? Some times I would have a pair that would just not work. Such pairs will be slow to lay, abandon eggs/youngs, etc. Switch it up and see what happens.
Some birds just aren't meant to be breeders. It would be a win win. As I would rather be flying them then using them in the breeding box.
Thor
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katyroller
24 posts
May 04, 2006
11:07 PM
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Yeah, those cocky cocks can be a royal pain in the @#$. I like to breed open loft so I can observe the birds in a "natural" environment. I have one cock right now whose hen is on eggs, that is terrorizing the loft. Everytime I look in on them, he is chasing hens that just got off the nest or cocks with young trying to get some feed. I keep getting vivid pictures of this cock suddenly becoming a Parlor roller.
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