Fr.mike
161 posts
May 06, 2006
7:41 PM
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It seems to me that I have an inordinate amount off babys dead in the nest.I have eight pair breeding--all healthy--good crap-good ventilation(when I scrape in mourning its hard dry balls)I change water every day and swap wateres everyday.No birds have ever looked sick.I have enough mouse traps poision and glue traps to kill a horse(all where the birds cant get to it)right now I have three nests with only single babys in them--nest mate died at two -three days.today I had three day olds dead in nest.since jan.1st I have had about eight die about the same age.Up until now I chalked it up to 70 deg. temp. day time and low 40s andsometimes lower at night-with parents not covering them as well at night.I have found no patteren as of yet.A pair will raise a round -no problem- then next round lose one--then another pair will lose both(maybe ten days later) then raise a round --no problems. then lose one the next round.The only patteren is they are frome 2 to 4 days old.I feed the breeders 12% NC and pellets.I am not so sure its the temps. dipping at night.As I said all adults look great happy healthy.--Also before breeding season they were all wormed plus 4-n-1.Do you think this is normal? I do use wood pellets on the floor with loft dressing--its dry as a bone--I rake it every mourning.--no damp spots-the birds are in individual nest boxs-but once mated up I let them out.I havent seen any agressive cocks--everybody seems to respect everyone eleses space.Nest boxes are 30in x18 x15 high--lots of space--I dont know whats your thoughts?
Fr.Mike
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fhtfire
435 posts
May 06, 2006
8:05 PM
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Mike,
How old are the breeders? It sounds to me like they are young breeders. If they are young breeders or on the first year of breeding...it is not uncommon to have the first couple of rounds...mostly singles. YOu will have infertile eggs....you will have hens that sit on the first egg and not "hover" over the egg...so the young hatch about 2-3 days apart and you have a big one and a little one. The little one usually dies with a young pair of breeders..but an old pair will take the time to make sure the little one is getting enough grub. With young breeders you will have hens that may not sit on the young at night...when they should be. That is if they are young..first time breeders.....if they are young...usually after they get a couple rounds under there belt and spring really starts getting them going...you will see more two bird nests instead of sigles. If they are old birds....it could be the dip in temperature.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Fr.mike
162 posts
May 06, 2006
8:38 PM
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Yea-Paul-this is their first year for all of them.I thought after two or three rounds they would be in the swing of things but I guess not. It just ticks me off trying to get off the ground here my first year and seeing four or five nests hatch out and two days later finding one dead here one dead there.Trying to fill two kitboxes is alittle more challenging than I expected.Thanks again for your input.
Fr. Mike
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fhtfire
436 posts
May 06, 2006
10:29 PM
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Mike,
The first year is always the hardest. At least it was for me. Your first instinct is to want everything fast...and to end up perfect. The first year is a HUGE learning experience. The first step in learning your birds. Developing a training style and seeing what kind of parents your birds are....and most of all....which pairs produce. They will start doing better with age...but you may find a pair or two that are just crappy parents...that happens too...if they are and they produce...just foster there eggs. Everything appears to be kind of normal with young first time breeders.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Shaun
361 posts
May 06, 2006
11:32 PM
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Absolutely, Paul. I've had similar problems and I'm pretty sure it's because it's the parents' first breeding season.
Mike, you're right in that filling the first kitboxes takes longer than imagined. I was worried about breeding far too many and having to dispose of a large chunk of them. As it's turned out, I've managed to produce just a few at a time of the same age, then one is lost to a hawk or another disappears during initial training. So, I end up with a few here and there, trying to blend birds together with different ages and stages of training. I'm not so keen on housing and training small batches of birds separately, as it's very time-consuming and full of hassle. I want them all in the same kitbox until it's full and I can start another. But the downsides are many: birds which are already flying well want to come down early when they see younger ones getting their bearings on the loft top. These youngest, when they finally get going, don't kit as well and are all over the place - it's all very distracting for the older birds, which are now starting to roll. But, if instead I train just the small batch of birds, before allowing them with the main kit, then they're too easy a target for the local sparrowhawk which watches them from a tree then jumps out to grab one; because these babies are flying at just the right height with their obvious young bird wing action, they're an easy hawk target. I've found that my best compromise is to wait until the main kit is on its way down, then flag the youngsters into it. This way, they go that bit higher than they would have done on their own and so they're out of range of the low-flying sparrowhawk. It's very much breath-holding time, waiting for them all to land, though. Sometimes one just doesn't come back. If I'm lucky it will have landed somewhere close by and I might get it back with the next 24 hours. However, the odd one just does a runner and I never see it again.
There really is no easy answer other than keep on churning out more birds, accepting the losses and accepting that the kit will probably take months to gain in size and take proper shape.
Shaun
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C.J.
147 posts
May 07, 2006
6:05 AM
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Hey Mike sorry to hear about your bad luck. Just a couple of questions and suggestions. Do you remove the first egg once it is hatched or do you leave it in. If you leave it in you should try removing it and placeing it in a safe p[lace then in two days keep an eye on the hen for her second egg. Once she has laid the second egg replace the first. This way both babies are bieng born witrh in minutes to hours of each other instead of two days. This gives both of them an even and fighting chance. If you allow them to hatch two or three days apart one baby is way healthy and bigger and more agressive. Ma ma doesn't strategically feed the babies. if one baby is the bigger and getsa it beak into hers it is the one that gets fed. Some guys use dummy eggs to keep the hen on the nest. I have in past years but I find that the hen sets just fine when the second eggs comes around.
I hope this helps.
C.J.
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chachi
4 posts
May 07, 2006
9:45 AM
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Hey Mike,
I am by no means an expert breeder, but I have just really started churning out birds. Lots of hawks here and all kinds of conditions, so I am battling the losses and still learning to fly. I have young breeders too. How do you feed? I take grit and mix it with the feed as well as have alot of fresh grit in the loft always available.
I had the similar problems but have found what works for my birds is this. I tried free feeding for a while but found that even the young that were a litle older were keeling over. I think it was from the breeders picking up feed from the floor that might have had a little crap on it and pumping it back into the young, plus it made a mess that I didn't like to leave laying around. I turned to feeding at least twice a day but usually three times a day. The birds always want to eat even if they are fat(instinct). The three times a day gets them into a rhythm of feed then pump the little ones. That way if the bigger chick is already full, the little one will still get the attention from the breeders wanting to pump after feeding. It's pretty loud after I feed cause i have my birds in a rhythm and once they slow down picking up the grain, they all get back to the nest within a minutue or two and all the chicks go pretty crazy, even the breeeders are tripping over each other to feed a chick. Again what works for me.
Last Edited by chachi on May 07, 2006 9:56 AM
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Fr.mike
163 posts
May 07, 2006
10:04 AM
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CJ--I did that--switch out first egg with a woody until the second egg.I had good success. but that was in jan.-feb. when it was from 10 to 20 deg. I thought when it hit 65 to 80 daytime I wouldnt have those problems--however the night time temps have been 38 to 55 deg.Its starting to warm up now at night--next year I wont be so quick to stop the ole switherooo until I am sure the temps. are stable.thanks
Fr.Mike
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Fr.mike
164 posts
May 07, 2006
10:18 AM
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Hey Chachi- I do use a cafeteria feeder for the breeders- It has plexiglass holes that keeps the seed slinging to a bear min. but I doe use a floor litter(wood pellets) and I noticed some feed still gets slung out.---SO-- today I am going to a straight clean floor with just loft dressing.The wood pellets are good in the winter it allows the crap to dry and not freeze into unscrapeable crap icesicles LOL but It could be a problem now-even though everything is dry. there are some seeds in the litter so I will be remedy this today just in case.Thanks
Fr. Mike
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C.J.
150 posts
May 07, 2006
4:33 PM
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Mike I would always switch out the first egg with a woody. This way the babies are on even playing feild when they are trying to get food. You won't end up with one baby bigger than the other. Or atleast not as often.
C.J.
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J_Star
424 posts
May 09, 2006
4:57 AM
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Mike, check and see if you have a draft in your loft.
Jay
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
607 posts
May 10, 2006
1:59 PM
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Hey Mike, didn't you mention you have a light that goes off at night at a certain time in the breeding area? If so, perhaps the parents were not on the eggs/squabs when the lights clicked off and so they did not sit on the nest causing the mortality??
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Finding Roller-Pigeon.Com Beneficial To You? Please Consider Donating To Support Us. Donors Receive A Certificate of Appreciation.
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Fr.mike
165 posts
May 11, 2006
1:09 PM
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J star I dont believe I have a draft-They seemed to do fine when it was 20 deg. and wind was blowing-however- I did shut the windows at night back then--maybe I will go back to that again.---Tony my lights go off about 1 hour before sundown-plenty of time for them to find perchs and get toonest boxes so I dont think thats a problem.thanks to all. I will keep a close eye on it.
Fr. Mike
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W@yne
3 posts
Jul 31, 2006
10:31 PM
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Try checking that you do not have a mite problem, Do your young that die look pale? I had similar problems and found a red mites under wing,Check in the dark hope you get your birds sorted
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Phantom1
142 posts
Aug 01, 2006
6:23 AM
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Mike,
Same thing happened to me about 3 years ago, only it was the old birds. I could feed and water, come back 15 minutes later and find hens sitting upright on the nest, dead.
Question, how often do you clean your lofts? Too much sanitation can be a problem. Your birds need some adversities so their immune system develops. If they're weak in immunities and catch something, it may not be enough to kill the older birds, but can easily be passed to the youngsters.
Just some thoughts...
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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Ste
6 posts
Aug 01, 2006
11:00 AM
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If in doubt see the vet.
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knaylor
265 posts
Aug 02, 2006
9:41 AM
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Mike, are you using nest bowl pads??
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