parlorfancier916
19 posts
May 17, 2006
7:59 PM
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what are your theories of how the pigeon became tumblers, then rollers, then spinners?
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Alan Bliven
336 posts
May 21, 2006
11:47 AM
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An ancient legend says that the goddess Ishtar (Inana) hurt a pigeon by pricking him in the wing and that's what made him roll over, and thus the start of the Roller Pigeon.
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Alan
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parlorfancier916
20 posts
May 22, 2006
9:54 PM
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really? I heard that a guy named Theodore Williams kicked 2 disabled pigeons, which made them roll and then there kids became rollers....good theory though, wonder how it really happened...
Last Edited by parlorfancier916 on May 22, 2006 9:54 PM
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Alan Bliven
337 posts
May 23, 2006
6:20 AM
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I believe it had to be a genetic mutation that was selectively bred for.
It would be interesting to do breeding experiments with the roll gene.
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Alan
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Alohazona
151 posts
May 23, 2006
9:02 AM
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It's not hard to take a chronic bumper or extreme rolldown,introduce them together and come up with a ground roller.It can be done in basically a short time frame depending on the type of birds you have available.So todays Parlor more likely than not has been cultivated that way.I have a black cockbird from the loft of Lenny Skilling,from the Mowdow strain,which is supposed to be the original ground rolling strain that almost died out in California many years ago.
The Lotan was a flightless ground rolling pigeon found native in India.I have not seen any record of this bird being bred to a tumbler pigeon,but given the British influence in India,I don't doubt that it was done.Any way who knows???Thats just my take on how the Parlor developed.
In Europe and the Middle East pidgeon keeping/cultivating is a way of life,and considered secretive to the familys that cultivated them.Thats why theres so many family names associated with them....Aloha,Todd
Last Edited by Alohazona on May 23, 2006 9:13 AM
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washington86
67 posts
May 23, 2006
12:18 PM
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about 4 thousand years ago, opigeon were alwasy shoot down and kill, then one day one pigeon start faking that it was dead by rolling all the way down. that's my history
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
543 posts
May 23, 2006
12:41 PM
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Washington, your employer doesn't require you to take a piss test once a month does he...lol.
Few know or realize the there are many species of birds which possess a gene which can make them occasionally flip over. It is found in budgie parakeets, blackbirds, crows and some other species of small birds. The difference with with pigeons is they were easily captured and bonded with man. This is their greatest feature in the animal kingdom in my opinion. Man saw the expression of this gene and selected for it. You can breed two generations in a year. Darwin himself noted that if you want to see evolution at the hands of man, simply look at the pigeon. If man had taken the same opportunities over hundreds and thousands of years with other species, they might exhibit similiar performance features as our pigeons. The roll is not complex, it is recessive by nature, much like many of the recessive genes in us humans. Once the gene has been located, breed for it over and over and see what happens. That is what they did so long ago.
Brian.
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siddiqir
216 posts
May 23, 2006
1:09 PM
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I believe rollers were originated in India, not flying but the birds which roll on the ground. By twisting pigeons neck over and over again and release them on the ground, force pigeon to roll. This is not my theory but I read some where in old pigeon book. There are other stuff I read too which make the birds to roll like having their neck permanently twist using rubber band or thread...etc...those old timers do NOT have computer and tv so they do all that kind of crazy stuff all day LOL
Also, all these thing end up at KING place (to show to king) and if the king get happy then person who originated get $$$...so they have reason to do all that kind of stuff...
I seem to agree with the logic and I believe flying rollers came from rollers which roll on the ground.
Last Edited by siddiqir on May 23, 2006 5:01 PM
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Alan Bliven
338 posts
May 23, 2006
4:13 PM
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And if the king didn't like the way the bird performed, the fancier along with his bird were culled and both heads rolled. ;)
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Alan
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AIREDALE
6 posts
May 24, 2006
2:52 AM
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Evolution and selective breeding.One theory is the production of a chemical Acetyclorine which affects muscle control(back and neck muscle spasms).The production of this chemical is genetically controlled.Birds which are confined or are under stress can not burn off the chemical as birds that are in a open loft or not confined at all.Birds that are not hungry are under less stress.This chemical affects humans with neuromuscular problems.I think it would be great to have neuro research people study the roller,with regards to this.Perhaps it would unravel a lot the mystery.I believe that training a kit properly (feeding,housing ect) is as important as breeding.Just my opinion.
Thanks John
Last Edited by AIREDALE on May 24, 2006 2:54 AM
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washington86
68 posts
May 24, 2006
12:36 PM
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then why do some roller rolls at the way down, not noticing that it will kill itself. is there another thoery about the roll down. may those roll down seems to be nerdy and a bit stupid right. those who dont go all the way down seems to be smarter.
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parlorfancier916
21 posts
May 24, 2006
10:14 PM
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so most of you guys are saying is that someone did torture birds to get them to be so good, I feel sorry for those in the process...ouch.
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AIREDALE
7 posts
May 25, 2006
2:53 AM
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Why do some excellent swimmers suffer leg cramps and drown?The roll is a involuntary reaction.Some birds have more control to resist this.The degree and duration of the "Tic" or "Spasm" is different with each individual.Why do Parlor Rollers stop performing once they learn how to stop the roll? Parlor Roller fanciers will net or stop the bird before he comes to a stop.Good roller breeders don't breed for rolldowns they cull them.Good rolls (10'-40')with good velocity and frequency do not have an adverse effect on the bird.Hope this explains my position.
John
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