knaylor
212 posts
May 26, 2006
8:19 PM
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Guys, read Todds post. He has it figured out. Very well explained post Todd. Kevin P.S. and not just because be agrees with me!!(but it didnt hurt) LOL
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katyroller
33 posts
May 26, 2006
8:25 PM
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My very limited experience with comp. flying has taught me that you can never really predict how a judge will rate a kit. I have seen judges change from one loft to another. All you can do is make sure your kits are in top form and hope for the best. If the judge doesn't like your kit that day what can you do about it? It has always confused me when I look at the score sheets how much difference there can be from region to region. As far as flying with trees and other obstacles. I would position the judge where he has the best view of your kit. If questioned about it simply explain why. I have been on flys where we stood in the middle of the road like idiots because it was the best viewing spot.
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Velo99
456 posts
May 27, 2006
1:22 PM
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I still don`t see how you guys can think like you do.
2000 might be a stretch, but to say that any score over three hundred is loosely judged is a bull.Unless you`re there and can offer a eye witness opinion the best thing would be to keep your lip zipped. A 2000 point kit was obviously primed and ready to go even if the score is a bit inflated. Same with a 500 point kit.
If you`re to put up against the 2000 point kit with the same judge do you think your kit could beat a 2000 point kit? Thats the question to ask before you start this loose judge deal again.
The fly scores are the numeric expression of a lot of work for most flyers. If you want to sound like a whiner keep using the loose judge excuse. The next excuse after that is the judge doesn`t like me,so I quit flying competetion.
At least KC admitted he hasn`t had a good kit in a couple of years. HE didn`t make excuses. Good man there that KC.I will admit my finals kit sucked hard then swallowed. My fault not thiers. I couldn`t get them cycled back in time. Really though Heine doesn`t like me thats why I got a zero.lol
yits
v99
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J_Star
448 posts
May 27, 2006
3:20 PM
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Good posts everybody and I appreciate your input and thoughts. I truly admire Todd's post of being unbiased by not calling them tight nor loose judges. My point was only to point out that the term loose judging for certain area's only down plays others achievements and become insulting. It is true that some areas or regions like judges that score everything but not in all cases.
Scott, don't take my post more than what it is. When I read people posts and I myself feel some offence to it, I can only imagine how the intended recipients might feel. I was trying to point that out in a politically correct way.
I've never been in CA or any region in CA under any judged fly to be certain of how kits are judged and neither been in the Carolinas to see that either. My point is that the writings from the folks in those regions would give me an impression of how things are, but sometimes that impression painted might not be as good as the true sense because of the way the post was written. That is all and I command everybody that participate in any local, national or international competitions whether they have high or low score. It is truly a privilege. Keep up the good work and have fun training your Kits. Thanks.
Jay
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motherlodelofts
794 posts
May 27, 2006
4:11 PM
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Kenny I didnt say it took a loose judge to score over 300 , your just getting your feet wet.
Jay , you know me , I'm just the opposite of politicly correct and have no problem saying what I'm thinking almost to a fault.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on May 27, 2006 5:09 PM
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dave
101 posts
May 27, 2006
6:24 PM
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Wait for the final score of the WC and then read Heine's report. Compare the qualifying score with the final score. Heine is a good judge (I like the way he judges , similar to Scott and Kevin Naylar). You can bet that the birds earned every single point he gave out and none were freebies. I am sure we can get a good reading on most of the kits when everything is done.
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Ballrollers
372 posts
May 27, 2006
9:30 PM
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Jay, Kennt H,
I gotta go along with you on this thread. It's getting really old to hear these guys wearing the badge of "low scores" as an indication that their judges are tighter and their standards higher than the rest of the hobby, with their scores more representative of real quality. Horse manure!! I personally talk with Joe Bob nearly every week and see his birds fly, regularly. I told him that the California guys were reporting on the lists that he said his kit didn't really perform to standards at the regionals, in spite of the high score. He said, "No, Cliff, what I said was that they did not measure up to MY standards. That is a big difference. I've judged all over the world and that kit would win about any region, anywhere. I just know what they REALLY can do, and they were sawing off their depth at 20 ft. for some reason." And, yeah, I listen to what the crowd is saying; especially when the crowd is guys like Jay Yandle, Clay Hoyle, Bobby Bradley, Don Simpson, Dom Cirri, Dave Szabatura, and host of other guys who have flown and competed for decades from a half-dozen states who scored Clay and Joe Bob even higher last Fall Fly and this WC Regional. Sweeping generalizations that these guys don't know anything about quality because they don't happen to be judging at the time and because they rated the kit higher than the judge did, are simply ridiculous. It's beginning to sound like sour grapes to me! LOL! Let's see, who's voice has the most credibility?...the complaints of the lone voice or two in the opposite end of the country, who have never seen the kit fly, that the judge must have scored poor quality?......or the opinions of the likes of the men mentioned above who have just witnessed the performance? Gee, that's not too hard for me to figure out!! I guess if it motivates you guys to delude yourselves that your low scores are merely representative of tight judging and higher standards of performance than the rest of the country, rather than just poor quallity performance...well, have at it, guys! But don't try to convince the rest of us in the hobby that your point of view is anything short of foolishness. YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on May 27, 2006 9:33 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
551 posts
May 27, 2006
9:51 PM
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I try to keep things realistic.
Every kit I have seen scored over 800 points was generally not worth half of their score. Does that mean all kits are that way? Absolutely not.
If a person has to rely upon their score sheet to give credibility to their birds or their endeavors, they need to find another hobby.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
795 posts
May 27, 2006
10:13 PM
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Got the finals judge heading that way now Cliff ,I hope you make the fly because you might learn something , then again its doubtful , as you seem to like la la land.
Not saying that either won't do well( hope they do the US proud), but you will see a much more realistic picture, and no they won't be silly scores.
I didn't once mention their fly Cliff , I would appreciate it if you wouldn't be telling someone something that I didn't say , it is obvious your motives are nothing nut bad as usual.
As usual you are turning a topic into somthing it isn't ,it isn't about any one fly , it is about loose judging being detrimental to the breed , you are a prime example of the problem it creates.
Nowhere did anyone say these high scores are bad flys , the scores are just inflated due to what all such judges are scoreing , that is a fact Cliff , and if "you" don't learn the differance than it is your loss.
What is worse is you talked to JoeBob about that fly (as I did , along with others) and you still didn't learn anything , or you just write what you want to write, I think it is a little of both , on second thought I think you were to busy trying to throw a bad light on me by throwing things out of context than to learn anything from him , nothing but your loss again.
I did talk to JoeBob a little about that fly , no reason to talk about here though.
The judge did the best job he knew how and that is all you can ask of them , and the kits on top were in the right order and overall that is all that matters.
More importantly we talked about the finals judge and what he is looking for , I told him to set the team up stictly for qaulity breaks and not activity , he knows what to expect .
Some judges you are better off setting the team up for activity ( the looser ones) that isn't the case with this one.
You allways want to get a read on the judge and it gives you a heads up on the best way to set up the team , loose judges you want activity , with qaulity judges activity will cost you because theres a price for it and you will pay for it in the over all qaulity of the team because they aren't fooled by activity.
Cliff I called the national fly before it was even over last year and told you that Clay would hold it, why was I able to do that ? you can't do that with loose judges , why is that ?
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on May 28, 2006 11:20 AM
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knaylor
213 posts
May 27, 2006
11:51 PM
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Cliff wrote,"I told him that the California guys were reporting on the lists that he said his kit didn't really perform to standards at the regionals, in spite of the high score.
Which California guy said this?????
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Ballrollers
373 posts
May 28, 2006
8:43 PM
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Well Scott and Kevin....I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you boys again. My words and meaning have already been twisted beyond recognition, as usual! LOL! Suffice it to say that on this topic, I come down on the same side as Kenny H and Jay. We'll just leave it at that. YITS, Cliff
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JMUrbon
8 posts
May 28, 2006
10:59 PM
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Can I add a little bit to this if I may. I dont think that we really need to be having this argument about tight or loose judges in the prelims. it really makes no difference as long as he is consistant. Yes sometimes there is a better quality kit that looses out but that is the reason that the Q and D system is used. They are supposed to sort out the crap by awarding bonus points to the better quality and depth kits. By no means am I saying that a judge should call everything that moves but if the birds break in the alotted time together and they are what the JUDGE DEEMS scorable then they should be scored. I have discussed this with Kevin in the past regarding the fact that the final rule in the WC rules pretty much throws out any of the other standards that are formentioned in the guidlines.(It states) Integrity. The judge shall NOT score anything that does not meet his standard for adequate quality and depth or duration of performance. This competition is for ROLLERS and not tumblers! Roller flying is a subjective sport and the judge may have to make allowances for extraordinary circumstances. In any case, the judge's decision is final and anyone verbally or physically attacking the judge will be disqualified from the fly and may be banned from future WC events by the WC committee.
Anyway I have always felt that we will get a much clearer view of the scores when a finals judge is finished and that doesnt mean that there wont be circumstances like weather,preditors or some other whim that mother nature decides to throw our way. what it does mean is that all in the finals will be judged with the same set of eyes and hopefully the same set of standards. Just my thoughts though, Joe
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knaylor
215 posts
May 28, 2006
11:07 PM
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Cliff, that is fine. My advice to you is that if you are going to call people or email them and say something about what us "california guys are saying" you better get the facts straight!!!!!! Kevin
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J_Star
452 posts
May 30, 2006
6:34 AM
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Scott, you said “Jay, you know me , I'm just the opposite of politically correct and have no problem saying what I'm thinking almost to a fault.” That is fine and I appreciate your honesty. From reading your post, the way it sounded as you want be confrontational and I don’t think you want to be perceived that way. But courtesy, kindness and respect will always go a long way.
Jay
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Ballrollers
374 posts
May 30, 2006
8:16 AM
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One thing you can always count on with me, Naylor. My facts will always be reported as straight as I know them to be. I do not embellish, diminish, or exaggerate to support a personal agenda. I'm not mentioning names; just to keep the peace. YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on May 30, 2006 8:30 AM
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knaylor
219 posts
May 30, 2006
8:29 AM
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Yes Cliff you always have the facts straight. LOL LOL LOL
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Ballrollers
375 posts
May 30, 2006
8:41 AM
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Thanks you, Kevin. I'm glad that you notice. World Cup report-Joe Bob flew at 8:00 AM this morning-198.38 pts. Clay flew at 11:00AM-302.4 pts to take the lead. YITS, Cliff
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knaylor
220 posts
May 30, 2006
9:41 AM
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Glad to hear that. Looks like they both had good fly times and flew as per the w/c schedule, unlike reported??????
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dave
102 posts
May 30, 2006
10:00 AM
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Congrats to both of them. How many breaks did each get? Were they as frequent as they were during the prelim?
Last Edited by dave on May 30, 2006 10:00 AM
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