Double D
224 posts
Jun 02, 2006
1:29 PM
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Now granted, I have a number of power lines around my back yard where I fly my birds but I have a number of young birds that like to perch on them after they fly and not trap in quickly and now a couple of established birds who have always landed directly on the kit box have taken to following them to the powerlines to perch for awhile. IT REALLY IS PISSING ME OFF!
The birds causing the problems are only about 8 weeks old but now I've pretty much lost my patience, especially when my established, well-trained kit starts following these bad habits. I realize they are young but they've already developed a habit I don't like and I have two birds that were weaned maybe 2 or 3 weeks ago who are following their lead also and I'm thinking I should cull the whole lot of them. Opinions?
Darin
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maxspin
35 posts
Jun 02, 2006
1:35 PM
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Darin,
Call you birds in. Feed the ones that come in. If they sit on the wire they don't eat. Next day put them all out again. I'll bet that the ones that were on the wire yesterday are the first ones in after missing a meal. It will not take long for them to break themselves of this habit. Remember YOU are in control.
Keith Maxwell
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Planet_Rock_Lofts
52 posts
Jun 02, 2006
2:21 PM
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Darin,
I agree with maxspin, you are in control, it ain't the birds fault. Break this habit immediately. Let those straglers stay out all day and night they'll get it real fast.
Planet Rock Lofts
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Velo99
468 posts
Jun 02, 2006
3:36 PM
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you`re feeding too much.
yits
v99
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Double D
225 posts
Jun 02, 2006
9:48 PM
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Believe me, I've already done everything you guys are talking about. If anything, I have underfed them the last 3 weeks to get control and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Sitting out all night hasn't made them trap the next day either. Missing a meal doesn't seem to be a concern to a couple of them. I've done everything you guys are already talking about with no results. A couple of the young birds have improved a little bit but they still pull the same crap of landing on the wires and houses all over the neighborhood. I call 'em in like crazy and it doesn't help.
I was willing to work with them as I was keeping them separated from my established kit and would fly them separate, etc. hoping that eventually if I starved them enough, they'd learn but cutting the feed hasn't produced the result I'm looking for. Unfortunately today, my ten-year old wanted to show his friend the birds so they opened the trap and left it open. The birds can squeeze through the trap bars if they try hard and some established birds got out and were sitting on the freakin powerlines with the younger birds when I came home for lunch. When I called them in, those birds came in slowly and all but two of the younger birds followed but all very reluctantly and slow to trap. When these young birds start giving bad habits to my established kit, that's where I'm drawing the line.
I still have two young birds out tonight, no where to be found. I've vacated a kit box and left food in it and the trap open hoping they'll trap early tomorrow. As long as they are in the area, I'm not going to fly my established kit anymore so those birds can't cause them to start pulling crap. I've got 9 more I'm getting ready to move from the weaning cage to the kit box and I'll be damned if I'm going to go through this crap again with them. My thoughts are to cull the birds that are causing the issues and move on. They are not worth the feed and the frustration. Everyone said "cull hard" but I've been tolerant of really young birds and if they were even close to doing what they should be doing, that would be one thing but they won't trap, they land on everything but the kit box and I've lost my patience with them.
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on Jun 02, 2006 9:51 PM
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birdman
178 posts
Jun 02, 2006
10:14 PM
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No, they aren't culls as long as they are flying and kitting OK. They are still young birds and are still learning. Keep cutting the feed back and use a dropper to get them to land on the loft. Try cutting back on the water too and only water them when they come in.
Russ
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Santandercol
89 posts
Jun 03, 2006
6:54 AM
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Birdman,
What do you mean by a dropper?
Kel.
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rosebudrollers
14 posts
Jun 03, 2006
8:01 AM
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Darin.I have the exact problem.Sometimes I wack them off the lines with pvc pipe.What works the best for me is to feed the youngsters into the main kit one at a time.When they kit and land right often after only a few trips add the next until your done. Curtis
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birdman
179 posts
Jun 03, 2006
8:33 AM
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Kel, a 'dropper' can be any bird or birds that entice your fliers to land. My friend uses a white fantail to 'drop' his birds to the loft and then he rewards them with a little bit of feed. The dropper pretty much just struts back and forth on his loft and gets the other birds attention. Once the fliers associate the dropper with being fed they will start dropping off the wires pretty quick and onto the loft. Young birds that are being weaned but can't fly yet would make good droppers too. My birds are trained to my whistle and the rattle of the feed can but every now and then a few stubborn birds will stay out. The ones that stay out don't get fed. Next time they usually come in pretty quick.
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STARFIRE
41 posts
Jun 03, 2006
10:04 AM
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-Hi DD:
I have had this problen too.What I do is cut their feed off,not back.don't feed any bird till it comes to the coop-.NO feed till they come where they are supposed to go.Unless you get them off the wires they will be no good anyway. Stan Arnold-------
STARFIRE
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fhtfire
457 posts
Jun 03, 2006
10:17 AM
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Darrin,
You are in a tough situation. If they are affecting your older birds....CULL them and move on. You are the one that is feeding the birds and caring for them! If they are giving you a headache and not doing what they should be doing...do not waste your time. I myself agree with the posts that you give young birds time....I give my young birds time too...they are young...but if they just do not get it...and it is affecting your other birds....well...that is the key question....are they affecting you other birds....have you given them time and they just do not get it...are they pissing you off....if it is all of the above...then cull and move one...just culling these problem birds...is a bump in the road. Like I said before...I culled three birds just the other day....I gave them ample time....they did not get it....they started affecting my other birds....well...I culled and moved on....just remember....a perch for a problem bird is being used by a possible...future champion. I have talked with you on the phone...you have done every trick in the book...you have done all you can....Darrin..it may be time to move on. This is what culling hard is all about. It sucks..but sometimes it has to be done. You can close your eyes at night and say...I TRIED EVERYTHING!!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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parlorfancier916
26 posts
Jun 04, 2006
10:58 PM
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fly them and then feed them, that works for me especially the youngsters they know that when they come back the food is loaded again...
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mammoth hill lofts
1 post
Jun 06, 2006
6:47 AM
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Never hold back the water. Let the slow trappers collect in a separate kit box and retrain them alone. Keep them with wings up everytime you go to the kit box. Make sure they are still hungry even after you feed them. Don't scare them off the kit box roof. Let them chase peices of grain off the kit roof and thru the traps or open door onto the feed tray. Do this for at least 4 days and you are then reinforcing what you expect of them forever. Consider culling them if they go back to old habits on the 5th day, but you must cut the feed and thier crops should feel empty when you handle them. Reward them with a teaspoon each if they trap quick as a group in a week! Don't feed them the same each day thereafter! Mammoth
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maxspin
36 posts
Jun 06, 2006
8:00 AM
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Darin,
Read STARFIRE's post carefully. If the birds do not trap when you call them in, then they do not eat. There next opportunity for feed is after the kit flys the next day. Again any bird that does not trap in does not eat.
If you are getting different birds not trapping in from day to day, then you are still feeding way too much.
Until you get this situation under control keep the entire kit on the hungry side. I would not be a bad thing if the kit did not want to fly for more than 5 min while you are correcting this situation. Once you are back in control and have the kit diving into the kitbox to be fed you can start to add more feed to increase the fly time again.
Keith
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
625 posts
Jun 06, 2006
8:01 AM
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Hey Darin, here is a simple SHOCK TREATMENT plan that I have successfully implemented to re-establish or establish control of young birds and older birds:
1: SEPARATE AGES: Fly and train the younger birds separate from the older ones. Perhaps put in an old hen or two if you got some.
2: TRAIN TO FEED CAN: Before you let these young birds out again, be sure you train them to respond to the feed can. They must “go wild” when you whistle and shake that feed can. That feed can MUST be the CENTER of their world. DO NOT let them out ever again unless they respond exactly the way I described. They must be VERY HUNGRY and “trained” to respond to the shaking of the feed can and your whistling as you feed them the appropriate amounts. DO NOT PASS GO UNTIL THIS IS DONE (Step 3)
3: SHORT RELEASE: The next time you let them out, they are to want to come in IMMEDIATELY as they are so hungry, allow them to trap at this time. Give them “modest” amount of feed. Their hunger is not to be satiated. Do this for about 6 or 7 days. You are establishing control by creating a new habit of actually “responding” to your feed can and whistling.
4: FLAGGING UP: Once you have established control using the feed can, begin letting them out by encouraging them to fly. Use a kit flag and make sure they are in the air for about 5 minutes. Let them land and trap (continue the shaking of the feed can and whistling as they trap). Feed them a little more than the amount you have been. At this point they are more interested in coming in to eat and going crazy with your feed can shaking and whistling than flying.
5: RETRAIN TO FLY: Slowly increase the feed amount to increase the fly time. Do not feed them an amount where they are satiated ever, at least until they are no longer kit birds…
6: CULLING: Any bird that does not respond to this training, cull or use it as a foster where you can derive some value from it.
As “manager” of your team, you have to create innovations (new methods) to overcome the “constraints” of your environment and/or previous training methods. The birds will “do” whatever you allow them to do, even if it is to sit on wires or respond like a flash to your feed can.
While these young birds are giving you a rough time, you will derive more personal satisfaction if you can “up your game” and provide the solutions needed to get from them what you want.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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J_Star
461 posts
Jun 06, 2006
1:04 PM
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Fly them very hungry until they start follow you in the yard when you shake the feed can. They will sit on the wire very shortly until they know the top of the kit box is where it is at. They are young and unsure to land on the kit box because they are afraid and spooked easily. But extream hunger for a few days will correct that.
Jay
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Double D
226 posts
Jun 07, 2006
12:45 PM
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I have been cutting the feed way back and the birds are responding fairly well. I did cull one bird that just wouldn't trap and that seemed to have quite a positive effect on the rest of the birds. Excellent post Tony! Hopefully I won't have to cull more. Thanks for the input everyone, it has been invaluable.
Darin
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