rust never sleeps
68 posts
Jun 06, 2006
10:04 PM
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 Monty Neibel june of 1999 Here he's giving one of his BEST LEGENDARY lectures about the "roller" one of the subjects was about if any one of us would breed from a seldom roller.The one you won't fly in competition.But when in the roll is outstanding. And we all answer yes.Picture are David Sanchez, Monty, myself, Frank Sanchez Dennis Gillotte. p.s. whould like to know what the rest of you guy's think about seldom roller......?
Last Edited by rust never sleeps on Jun 06, 2006 10:07 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
564 posts
Jun 06, 2006
10:12 PM
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Depends on what your goal is. Seldom rollers have no place in my lofts as they don't contribute to my competition kits. That said, there are many stages a good roller will go through and usually will be the most frequent in it's first 16 months of age. For me, good rollers roll with their kit mates on breaks.
Brian.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
60 posts
Jun 06, 2006
10:16 PM
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No Rich i dont think i would for the reason the frequency may not be passed on and seldom may continue on the genitics.. the only way i may try if the other bird i mate it to does have difinate frequency, and thats maybe...Later ...... R-Luna....
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rust never sleeps
69 posts
Jun 06, 2006
10:37 PM
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Thank's Brian and Richard. BUT Monty told me that he breed's that way and he did this for many years, put that pigeon on a hot hen or cock what ever sex that pigeon turn out to be, that he knew his family of birds that they would throw the frequency and he also said that if the seldom roller was over one year old and spin outstanding that all that matter to him.
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3757
45 posts
Jun 07, 2006
4:02 AM
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Russ - I spoke to Monty and Bruce Cooper about this as well and I think Monty emphasized that the bird had to be extremely awesome. I personally do not like birds that cannot perform at least once a minute. Another question I have is what is your definition of a seldom roller? Once every two minutes etc?
Last Edited by on Feb 23, 2008 5:59 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
62 posts
Jun 07, 2006
6:21 AM
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Allright now said if this tpye of bird is out of your family line,this bird could be used back in the family for control reasons, once your birds start to get a little to hot to help cool things down but this bird better be right up to par -velocity for sure-quality style- and since the bird is related....If it was another bird from another line and not knowing the family or percentages of quality,and i would'nt care from who it was, or who bred it,,,HELL no i would'nt use it at all.......I have experienced that on trial bird and set things back on those matings in some YEARS time, percentages were down for the first and second years in frequency......Later RUST.......R-LUNA
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
567 posts
Jun 07, 2006
12:37 PM
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Richard, if you want to "cool" off a line or add some control, using a stiff, no matter how good of a spinner, isn't the answer. Reach for one of those frequent ones that doesn't roll any more than 10 feet and rolls really nice. The view into the control factor can be seen by the depth the birds roll.
Brian.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
629 posts
Jun 07, 2006
3:13 PM
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Hey Richard, I agree with Brian in that it “depends” what your goal is in breeding from it. If my only choice in the whole wide world was between an unrelated seldom or an unrelated “hardly ever (never)” roller, I would use the “seldom” one.
However, if the starting point is that this unrelated seldom roller has some other trait that I need or want to add to my family, I would not use it unless it could maintain the current traits of my family plus bring in this new trait (for example, a shorter keel, see David Kowalski’s book: True Spinning Rollers).
Even then, I will have to go back to hard selection and culling of previous years to find the right tendencies and trait trends to find just the right tack to take with these new genes from this outcross.
Otherwise I believe I run the risk of running my breeding program backwards and losing the previous years worth of effort, work and results like you mentioned in your above post.
My question would be why anyone would want to breed from this kind of bird unless its total value was more than that of anything already in your loft, then the seldom factor is not really an issue at all, right??
On a conceptual level, even if the seldom bird is related, why would anyone choose a “lesser” bird within the family in an effort to “improve” it?
BALANCING THE CAVEAT
Now if breeding this seldom bird within an already high velocity family brings some kind of balance or stability, then it is a good thing, provided the offspring are not really going backwards in previously wanted and established traits.
For example, in my Ruby Rollers the Ash Red series lavenders tend to be the hottest incarnation of my family, so rather than breed 2 lavs together and produce birds that are generally very hot, I will put a lav on a Ruby Roller that tends to show the control and stability traits of the Blue Series part of my family for a better manipulation of the heat.
I call this “color balancing”, (okay color breeders, don’t get worked up LOL) and I do this within the Ruby Roller family line which is a mix of the Ash Red and Blue series colors. This works for my family and may not be something that applies to someone else’s roller family. You have to try it to see how it works for you.
Good discussion question…
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rust never sleeps
70 posts
Jun 07, 2006
9:52 PM
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 Thank you for your reply's, Brian,Tony,Richard.La Ron, seldom roller to me is in let say 30 to 45 min's of flying whould be no less 5 times that this pigeon has to perform and execute the spin that catches my eye.
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Richard A.
85 posts
Jun 10, 2006
7:13 PM
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My Method at my loft is: No worky, No Livee.
My Trash Can would runneth Over!!
Richard A.
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