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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Brian - How About a Breeder Component Chart?
Brian - How About a Breeder Component Chart?
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Double D
230 posts
Jun 15, 2006
10:01 PM
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I have been studying the roller component chart since you introduced it and I really love it. I believe it has put my understanding light years ahead of where it would have been without it in trying to build my ideal family of rollers. I would be extremely interested in a version of this component chart that's focused on the qualities of your ideal breeder or stock bird. Assuming a bird that makes it to the stock loft has as many qualities from the first component chart as possible, what components then would you focus on in allowing it to first, become a breeder, and second, to remain a breeder in your stock loft? Obviously the most important in the center and then working out from there. Thanks a bunch for your input on this site.
Darin
Last Edited by Double D on Jun 15, 2006 10:03 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
584 posts
Jun 15, 2006
10:56 PM
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Darin, glad you like it and it is pleasing to know it has benifited you. That was exactly the point when I thought of putting it together.
As for your question in regards to applying it to a breeder bird, I would say that most if not all of the components should be considered, or play a role in other things we consider more. Some of the things are like a chain of events.
In terms of a breeder, I wouldn't use the chart as a map of certainty. I would use it to better understand the important criteria I am looking for in my stock birds. Obviously the more positives the bird possesses and the more the owner understands how the components correspond with one another to various degrees, the more success the fancier will experience.
When it comes to stock birds there are a few main things that are of utmost importance to me. If these things are not met, then the thought of stocking the pigeon is not even a consideration.
It has to kit.
It has to have good speed in the roll. Doesn't have to be eye-popping super sonic, just good and pleasing.
It has to be smooth in the roll.
It has to show at least moderate frequency.
It has show a resiliant character.
It has to roll properly, meaning no goofy wing positions or glitches or tail riding, stuff like that.
It has to get my attention somehow and do so in a way that leads me to believe that I could confidently give the bird a try.
These are things I look for when trying a bird in the stock loft. Now there are other realities that play a larger role for me too. Such as do I have a suitable mate for it where my instincts tell me this would be a good mating? I don't want to stock a bird just for the sake of stocking it. To stock it I have to have the mate in mind. Is there a family relationship? What have the parents of this bird shown me? Did they produce as good on other mates? Was the performance consistent through the majority of the offspring that made it to the point of being worthy of judgement?
You have to consider to that my decisions now are different than my decisions say four or five years ago. My stock loft is much more sound now than it was then, so my decisions are far more scrutinizing.
If a person is just starting out, then by all means I would strongly suggest choosing the most sound pigeon that meets the requirements the flyer seeks to one day fly. The choices a person makes today will effect the birds he is flying five years from now.
The thing I see the most is that many new flyers get awestruck by just seeing roll. Roll, roll, roll. That is all they talk about, the roll, roll, roll and how deep it was, etc, etc. Most don't even take the time to listen when someone tries to tell them about the many other facets that surround the giant puzzle that makes up a good roller.
I had a few rather new guys over not too long ago. I flew my B team for them and they did pretty good. I was pretty proud of the show they put on. Then I kicked out the clown kit which has some very, very deep birds in it that are loose kitters, exit the roll sloppy, tail ride, and an assortment of other things. The visitors were oooohing and aaaahing over them, saying those are the best birds they've seen yet. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. These guys honestly liked that. And even scarier is they would breed from a bunch of them because of the roll, roll, roll.
The most successful competitive roller flyers and breeders this hobby has ever seen didn't just get all caught up in the roll. They paid attention to the finer details and developed an understanding of the multitude of components which link together to create the optimum result.
Brian.
PS-Here is a chart that John (AIRDALE) did and emailed to me to have me post it. I'll allow him the opportunity to discuss his thoughts and intentions about the chart.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jun 15, 2006 10:58 PM
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AIREDALE
17 posts
Jun 16, 2006
2:50 AM
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Thanks, Brian for posting the chart. As you can see it is a basic spreadsheet format.Different items may be added or deleted.This is just my initial thought, I'm sure everyone will want to expand on it.Brian's initial idea on a Chart is a great motivator for cause and effect.As you list the various items and what causes what you get a idea of how intertwined all the factors become.A lot of the factors are controlled by Genetics, but there are other management issues as well.Not all faults are the result of breeding,some are are management.When you start looking at the chart I hope you get an idea of how different factors might affect your program.Our problem may be feeding,culling,housing ect.I wanted to give give a numerical weight to each factor,but that varies with each individual.Hope this is of some help.Thanks again to Brian for posting such a thought provoking topic.
John
Last Edited by AIREDALE on Jun 16, 2006 2:53 AM
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
71 posts
Jun 16, 2006
5:50 AM
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John, a nice ,simple-basic,easy way to understand the chart to put our selves especially for the beginner or the fancier willing to grow to put our birds or breeding program in check. NICE JOB and CONCEPT BRIAN AND JOHN !!!!!!ps. how would you record, would it be a numerical score 1 - 5 ,,1 - 10 ?????------Richard Luna
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AIREDALE
18 posts
Jun 16, 2006
9:33 AM
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Thanks Richard hope it helps.You can use whatever rating system you want. These are just factors and everyone's loft is different.They are just avenues to explore.All but a few can say their management can't be improved.The beginner might want to look into feeding and housing more than the expert.Any knowledge we gain is useful and helps fill in the blanks with regard to raising better rollers.By the way Brian's thread about breeder's shows how much there is to consider.The DNA dice game is hard enough to win at as is.The more we know and take into consideration the better the odds.
Thanks John
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Double D
231 posts
Jun 16, 2006
8:52 PM
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Excellent points Brian! Great chart John! These types of posts and discussions take rollerdum to the next level and provoke many thoughts and questions. It's such a benefit to have others so willing to share information and insight. There's so much more to good loft management than I think any beginner understands when they first start out regardless of how much reading and studying they've done in preparation. Reading things and putting them into practice are two very different things because families of birds do not act or respond the same and the manager, (me), finds himself making little mistakes all the time in how he approaches the challenges the birds present with their behavior.
Darin
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