nicksiders
657 posts
Jun 26, 2006
12:58 AM
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People purposely breeding rolldowns; breeding rollers with other breeds for color or other purposes; selling birds as rollers that don't roll(culls); and the list goes on and on and it is tolerated because we "live in a free country" or "the roller world is big enough for everybody". About makes me want to puke. We have people in this hobby who are not liked because they are "pureist"? Give me a break! What is not good about a pureist in this hobby? Is it because they keep us honest in the hobby that pissess everybody off? Hell there is kinda like a champaign seamingly going on trying to discredit them. You all know who they are. I think we need rules of ethics and if someone is found not in compliance we should take his PX priviledges away from him or something, hell I don't know. I know that I am living in a dream world on this issue and nothing will be done; nor can it be done. The definitions and scope are just too large.
Sometimes it makes you think seriously of withdrawing to your backyard..............before I am chased there(LOL)
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Snicker Rollers
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upcd
249 posts
Jun 26, 2006
2:24 AM
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Well this is my thing. I raise and fly Brimingham Rollers. And If someone buys from me I will replace a bird that does roll a min of 10 feet. Connom kindness.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
85 posts
Jun 26, 2006
6:09 AM
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Nick, 100% i agree with your thoughts.The way i see the cards on the table, that sometimes even the "puriest", breed for wrong reasons also and sell this birds that dont do squat in the air or in stock loft, after big bucks were spent,some not all, just try to keep it pure for the sake of pedigree,without promoting or breeding for the qualities.This also is wrong for the Birmingham Roller.
I'm not here to defend or badger( Birmingham )flyers or the colored (Hybrid) flyers,but rollers should do just as what there called
Breeding rolldown to rolldown is so immature and so insecure of that persons character,no confidence, or very low self esteem......
I'm not trying to argue here,just calling it as i see it..............R-LUNA
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3757
53 posts
Jun 26, 2006
6:47 AM
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Nick and Richard I agree. I am a purist but we must define what this means. "Genetics. Produced by self-fertilization or continual inbreeding; homozygous: a pure line." I have two Pensom lines and I will not cross them because there is no need. Also, I think there are some pedigree breeders but not as many as we think. The world cup, the California classic, SBRC, CPRC and other great clubs and events have caused people to put up, shut up or do their own thing in their backyard.
Last Edited by 3757 on Jun 26, 2006 6:48 AM
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parlorfancier916
50 posts
Jun 26, 2006
5:37 PM
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75 percent agree, 25 percent disagree, I started with tumblers and here I am today, what I'm trying to say is.. sometimes people who we all don't like in this roller world as if color breeders, rolldown, can sometimes encourage more people into the society. If you guys know what I mean..
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knaylor
251 posts
Jun 26, 2006
8:28 PM
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Parlor, how far is Rio Linda from Sac? Kevin
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parlorfancier916
52 posts
Jun 26, 2006
9:25 PM
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about a 5 minute drive if you live in the northside, it's a section of sacramento as like for example roseville, it is between roseville and sac, why?
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knaylor
252 posts
Jun 26, 2006
9:30 PM
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Was just curious. Do you ever have any plans on competing? Kevin
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3757
54 posts
Jun 27, 2006
1:00 PM
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Nick – Recently, a guy stated, in an advertisement, that he had the closet 514 in the world today. This is such an erroneous statement. Needless to say some of the newcomers truly believe these individuals. But it is a free country. So, you newcomers watch out for these false statements.
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parlorfancier916
58 posts
Jun 27, 2006
3:06 PM
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wanting to, but I am disapointed with my birds, I've began culling already and have only about 10 of the 60 from last week. Man I'm full. about 10 of my young kits were doing rolldowns everytime I let the out and man, If they are rolldowns.... then that means the family I had been working with were rolldowns. But yea, I am planing on competing, it's just that I don't think my birds are good enough. why do you live near the sacramento area?
Last Edited by parlorfancier916 on Jun 27, 2006 3:14 PM
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knaylor
254 posts
Jun 27, 2006
9:28 PM
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Parlor, I run the w/c fly in your area. I also know most of the guys in Sac that have birds. If you are ever interested just let me know. Also sometimes you are ready but without other people seeing your birds or you seeing other birds you cant realize how your birds will measure up. kevin
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parlorfancier916
61 posts
Jun 27, 2006
11:32 PM
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I don't think my birds are ready, maybe next time.. I have already culled all of them, the kit and breeders were no good, all rolldowns and chronicle bumpers. Man I am not going to be hungry for a while. Hey knaylor I'm interested in the scores, oh yea, does any of those guys want to sell a few birds, I want to buy a few birds from the roller-pigeon.com but My parents are always this and that about shipping and handling. that's what happens when you are 15 years old. you can email me at b-b-o-y-4-l-y-f@hotmail.com
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C.J.
305 posts
Jun 28, 2006
6:30 AM
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All you as a breeder can do is make sure the birds you are selling are birds you would want someone to sell you. Treat others how you want to be treated. Also help out any new guys out there that you possibly can. Expose anyone who you know is a theif so that others aren't caught up in their web of deceit. As new guys people need to ask for help and then take the advice given. Find an experienced bird person in your area and learn as much as you possibly can. Then when you breed your birds cull and cull hard. If you have a bird that doesn't roll get rid of it. I don't care if it came directly from pensom's line if it doesn't roll it doesn't have a place in your loft.
C.J.
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nicksiders
662 posts
Jun 28, 2006
11:52 AM
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CJ,
You hit right on it. There are birds you WON'T keep and birds you CAN'T keep. You should only be passing out the birds you CAN'T keep and culling those you WON'T keep.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jun 28, 2006 3:00 PM
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KirbyRoller
3 posts
Jun 28, 2006
12:47 PM
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that is true... some people are just making this hobby look bad by selling some junk birds.... last year i bought some bird at the store from some guy he say that they are good rollers... i though he was being true and so i bought for 5dallors a pices and i got like 10 of them. i got them for 6 month the best do only 3 or 4 flips only... that was when i stop buying birds from people i dont know.. then me and my little brother look around the net and found a guy that was nice and give us some birds, and wanted to thanks David from KRRC that give me some birds to start with, i didnt know if they were good or not but i took them because he was nice enough to give if for free jsut to start out with... he say that they are some good roller and they are. one of them is doing a good 5-10feet fast and tight maybe next year i will have some birds cause now all my breeder are sitting on eggs... also i got some from a guy name scott that give me a couple of birds,the birds were from Dan Kraker family of rollers and i have like 7 of them, but 2 flew away and 1 is breeding.. rite now im 17years old and have a kit of only 7 birds, i still new to this hobby so maybe next ill have a full kit to fly..
Yee
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Redline Roll-N-Deep Loft
Last Edited by KirbyRoller on Jun 28, 2006 12:49 PM
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nicksiders
666 posts
Jun 28, 2006
3:05 PM
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Yee,
Don't get in a hurry. Build quality. It is OK to have only seven if those seven are of good quality. If you got a hundred, but only five are of good quality what good is the other 95.
You will start to see the numbers rise.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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Velo99
517 posts
Jun 28, 2006
5:17 PM
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Guys,
Remember a few years ago when we were talking about culls and I said I would take I think it was Scotts culls cuz they were better than the birds I was flying?
Yesterday I gave one of my students 5 flyers from my A team.
Yes I culled them , Reason being is they wouldn`t fly on the same amount of feed as the rest of the A kit. That`s not a killable offense and I need a little room for up and comers so I gave em away. All good rollers. Do you think this was ethical? One mans cull is another mans flyer.
yits
v99
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If they don`t kit,they don`t perform.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
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knaylor
256 posts
Jun 28, 2006
5:40 PM
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Kenny what the heck are you doing? you are ruining the sport!!!!!! LOL JK I would not consider those culls. They are good birds that just have not fit your program. Scott has done the same plenty of times. I have been on the receiving end as well as Paul F. To me a cull is a problem bird that have bad faults and will be problems in any loft. Kevin
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C.J.
315 posts
Jun 28, 2006
6:04 PM
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Kevin what do you do with your old kit birds when better ones are raised?
C.J.
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rollerpigeon1963
90 posts
Jun 28, 2006
6:47 PM
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You cull them never give or sell them to no one. I guess I would never sell a bird that belongs to me. Because I think mine stink right now LOL LOL. But if I were to sell a bird or two. The person buying them would have to come and pick what he/she wants. Let them be the judge..
When you sell your birds and someone dont know how to get the most out of them. You are going to get bad feedback. I remember reading one time someone stated that a certain family of birds were stiffs. But they got them second hand from another person. Now is that fair for the person who started the family. Or for the guy that got them second hand. So you better do your home work and study hard. Choose well and go from there!!!
Brian
Last Edited by rollerpigeon1963 on Jun 28, 2006 6:49 PM
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nicksiders
667 posts
Jun 28, 2006
7:42 PM
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Kenny,
I don't think your birds where junk; they just didn't fit on the team(s) you're trying to build. They were Varsity players when you moved them. I would take some time to explain to the new owners why you were giving them up so they can match thier management of the kit to thier eunickness(sp). I have a masters degree, but can't spell.....I can read, but I can't spell(LOL).
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
617 posts
Jun 28, 2006
8:12 PM
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I think what Kenny did is fine, given you described the difference in feeding and why you were moving off of them. What might not have fit your managing practice might work just perfect for someone else.
I think it was CJ that asked about what does a person do with older birds that can/are replaced by younger better ones. Most of us have an unfortunate solution. If I start with 100 young, by the time two years has past, due to overflys and predators, I might be lucky to have 20 decent birds left. I think most people in today's flying environment face just that. Of the 30 old birds I have left due to the noted circumstances, I'd say maybe 15 make the grade in my terms. The other 15 aren't bad, but they will be down the road when they can be replaced by up and comers from the younger kits.
Right now I've got at least a dozen, maybe more birds that I've stocked, some I bred from and some I never did, that I will have to find a home for soon. They aren't bad birds, but basically have been replaced. I might refly them or just offer them to someone who I think would actually work with them.
Brian.
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birdman
190 posts
Jun 28, 2006
9:47 PM
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Nick, on a positive note, think about all of the pigeon guys that you have rubbed elbows with since you've been flying rollers and I bet 99.99% of them are great guys!
At least that's been my experience.
Russ
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knaylor
257 posts
Jun 28, 2006
9:56 PM
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CJ, I have done what Kenny did many many times. It depends on the birds and how good I think they are though. Did you not get my response?? I didnt see anything wrong with what he did. Kevin
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nicksiders
669 posts
Jun 29, 2006
7:51 AM
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Russ,
Most breeders that I rub shoulders with are those that pretty well match the profile of a conscience breeder of performance birds and you are right 99.9% of them great, great people. But, don't we screen them pretty well before we choice to rub shoulders with them?
Hell, Russ I have even screened you and I would not hesitate to rub schoulders with you(LOL). That is one thing sites like this; club meetings; email; phones do for you is give you the ability to screen people. You don't have to agree with poeple on every issue to appreciate them either, but there is always that common ground that runs through the relationship. There are people in this hobby I personally don't like, but I respect them dearly and take what they say to heart because of that common ground we share
........well, I rambled a bit(something that happens quite often when you get old) and I probably said too much(another thing that happens when you age) - LOL. But, you're absolutly right in that the membership in this hobby is overwhelmingly full of some very great people and you don't have to agree with them to understand that they are good, good people.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jun 29, 2006 7:58 AM
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