RED_DEVIL
1 post
Jun 27, 2006
1:04 AM
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I purchase a pair of birds from this asian kid, cause the band was a SBW (i assumed its Sammy William bird)...this kid sold me this pair for $150 it seems like a decent price. the hen is a Blue Chk and the band is 95-311, the cock is a Red Chk and the band is 95-301 (can't remember the last numbers)...will just want to know more about these pairs? (are these Jackenette birds)
if anyone can help me that will be great!
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C.J.
280 posts
Jun 27, 2006
3:47 AM
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First off Red welcome to the site. Next when you purchased this pair did you see them in the air. For a $150 they want to be good. If not I don't care who's name is on the band don't buy birds from someone thinking they will be good because of the name on the leg. There are tons of guys out there waiting to take your money for crap birds.
I have a guy here who is constantly calling asking to buy my culls and I won't sell him a single a bird. He would then sell my culls as top birds from my loft. This is why culls no longer leave my loft with bands on
C.J.
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RB&R
17 posts
Jun 27, 2006
11:36 AM
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I have sammy family too, most of them are red check and dark check some are blue check. i only have a pair, when i brought this pair i don't even know whether they proven to be breeder or not. but guess what i got some of fast and deep roller from this pair. from this pair i got 6/10 roll-down. to your question RED. from what i know sammy don;t have Jaconette birds , but R. Jaconette and Sammy got birds off from one guy.
Good luck,
Andrew
Last Edited by RB&R on Jun 27, 2006 11:40 AM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
610 posts
Jun 27, 2006
11:58 AM
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There are a lot of thieves in the cen cal area targeting sammy williams birds. I'd be really leary about buying anything from shady fellas. Many of them visit this site daily.
Brian.
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RED_DEVIL
2 posts
Jun 27, 2006
1:36 PM
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RB&R how does your Sammy William birds look like...if you could post a pic of some of your Sammy birds cause i wanted to see if they're the same...
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C.J.
285 posts
Jun 27, 2006
2:36 PM
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Red you are missing the entire point. It doesn't matter what the bird looks like. If it doesn't roll it isn't worth two cents. Never buy a bird on looks. I have had birds that look a little on the rough side roll unbelievable. There is alot of advice on here if you listen. Don't worry about its looks get it in the air that is the true test on whether or not you were taken for a ride. Without seeing these birds in the air I wouldn't base my breeding program on them. You are only setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment. You need to find yourself a mentor in your area and learn as much as you can.
C.J.
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parlorfancier916
59 posts
Jun 27, 2006
3:17 PM
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Red, unless if you see them perform, I think (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)...
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 1:57 AM
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RED_DEVIL
3 posts
Jun 27, 2006
10:54 PM
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Brian how would you know that central cali people wants to have Sammy Williams birds? and i don't think that Central Cali people are not thief i think that L.A has more thief for example look at Kevin McCray, even his best friend set him up...and Juan tried to hook him with other people birds and for the second time someone stole all of his bird again!..so if you really think about i say that LA has to most thief, anyways im from Navada.
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knaylor
255 posts
Jun 27, 2006
11:04 PM
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Red, for knowing as much as you do about the birds and people that are getting ripped how come you dont know what Sammies birds are?? And yes Brian you are right we do have a big prob with theft here in Central Calif. Kevin P.S. if the bands are true it looks like you bought 11 year old breeders. Also why would you pay that much and not know anything about them???
Last Edited by knaylor on Jun 27, 2006 11:06 PM
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Opinionated Blowhard
48 posts
Jun 27, 2006
11:08 PM
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Brian never said central california has more pigeon thieves than southern california. He just said that the central california thieves like to look for williams birds. Maybe the southern california thieves like to look for higgins birds. If thats what happened to mccray then its despicable. Kevin
Last Edited by Opinionated Blowhard on Jun 27, 2006 11:08 PM
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C.J.
294 posts
Jun 28, 2006
4:18 AM
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Hmmmm, Red you are making me nervous, and it takes a lot to make me nervous. First off you come on here asking questions but when people ask for clarifaication you offer nothing. You just continue on a little tangent. Then once one of our most knowledgeable contributors (Brian in this case) offers advice to be careful that there is a lot of theives in your area you attack him. Bud reread what was written. No where did Brian say everyone in your area was a theif.I have been here a long time and not once has Brian or any other valued member grouped an entire community into one group. If you don't want truthful advice then don't ask questions. If you want to learn take the advice given here you will learn tons about rollers.. But when you ask a question you need to be prepared to answer questions looking for clarification. You also need to respect EVERYONE on this site. You will learn very quickly the great folks here won't take kindly to you attacking one of their own. If you are pissed about your birds there is only two people you should be mad at and that is yourself and this Asian kid. My question to you is would you buy a car without researching it? I hope not. If you are going to be successful in this hobby you need listen and learn as much as you can. Heck you need to be a sponge. On this site you need to be respectful or move on we don't want any crap on here. In closing I hope everything works out with your birds and you enjoy them.
C.J.
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Mount Airy Lofts
242 posts
Jun 28, 2006
5:24 AM
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$150 for a pair from a un-known flier... wow. You either like to gamble or you must of seen something in that pair. 11 year old hen is as good as barren.
On the same point, whois to say the kid just didn't put a dead bird's band on a commie. That would be cruel but it does happen.
Good luck finding info on those birds.
Breed and fly is all one can do....
Thor
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C.J.
303 posts
Jun 28, 2006
6:21 AM
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Mount just because the hen is eleven doesn't mean she is barren. i have a 13 year old that I gave to my friend that is still producing. I do agree that he paid an awful lot for birds hee knows nothing about.
C.J.
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fhtfire
505 posts
Jun 28, 2006
8:39 AM
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You need to talk to this individual that sold you the birds. Or get in contact with someone who knows this Sammy person and get in contact with him or someone who knows his birds. Run the band number and that person will most likely know if it is his stock. I tell you right now..that if you call me with a band number...I have every birds that was born or gone through my loft on record....Most good breeders do.
As for stealing birds...to me that is almost like stealing a mans bible. You just do not do it. I have a dog with big teeth that says the same thing...LOL.
The other thing is...if you are flying 11 year old birds...I doubt very seriously they will show you anything in the air...unless they are an 11 year old kit bird...and I myself have never heard of to many kit birds that old. If I let all my breeders out right now....and I have flown out most of them or seen them roll at some point...they would really most likely land on a roof...roll down....or fly for about 2 minutes and have a heart attack. The only birds I would have any faith in and that would be my birds that I pulled from my teams this year to put in the stock loft...and even they would have some rust for not flying in 5 months. The point is...if you are saying that your birds suck because your breeders do not roll...then that his not a way to guage your birds. Don't put the cart before the horse. You need to breed all you can from this pair and fly out the young. Within a year you will know if they are junk or not. FLY THE YOUNG BIRDS FROM THIS PAIR> Foster them or do whatever you have to do. And I would do it soon...Some hens keep laying as they get old...but most start to dry up...so get them together and let them breed. In the mean time take a deep breath.....and maybe get some quality birds from someone who is a repitable breeder....and add those birds to your tool box. Then you have something to compare to. Don't give up hope just yet.
As for stealing birds...I have not heard of a big problem in Central California....most of us Central California guys help each other out by either giving good birds to new fliers or selling them below market value....I have heard that Southern Cal had a big problem with theives...but I have also heard that they sell there birds for a lot of $$$$ ...so that may make people steal...who knows...but I have seen photos of some Southern Cali lofts and they are locked down like fort knox...so there must be a problem....Again...I do not know..I am going off what I have heard from some SO Cal fliers Anyway...Breed from this pair and fly the young...you may find that this pair was worth far more then 150.00...it they are 11 year old birds and are still around that is a good sign...they obviously have dones some good somewhere or they would have been culled already.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
614 posts
Jun 28, 2006
11:31 AM
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Red, next time you visit this fella, or anyone claiming to have SW background birds, if you are allowed to, look at the birds in their lofts. If you see tape over the bands....guess what.
And yes, according to several roller friends across the valley, there is a group of individuals (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)that are rippin off lofts in the valley. (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) But that is just my own personal opinion about theives. Ask my local sheriff what I think about theives. He'd be more than happy to share that information with you.
They watch these lists, ask stupid innocent questions and even hang out in the nbrc chatroom asking suspiscious questions, a lot of them pertaining to Sammy birds. They attend different competition flys and ask the wrong questions. They attempt to contact flyers after the fly about purchasing birds. Get the point?
If you are straight, then just keep it clean and on the look out for what doesn't seem right. Honesty generally has a pretty sweet, identifiable smell to it. If something don't seem right, chances are it isn't.
Oh, and there are theives everywhere, down here we just are more inclined to shoot their asses if caught. Dead man floating can't talk.
Oh, and McCray got jacked by his friends, which just goes to show you that you can't trust anyone, anytime.
Brian.
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 2:02 AM
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dave
114 posts
Jun 28, 2006
12:59 PM
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Brian, did any of those suspicious guys visit you or talk to you? I would like to know as I'm still trying to figure out who stole my birds a week before the WC finals. Stole my entire #2 team and some from my #1 team. You can email me at: ddv2376@yahoo.com to keep things private.
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knaylor
258 posts
Jun 28, 2006
9:58 PM
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Dave, I think the person or persons that took your birds have been in your yard before. How else would they know about your birds way out where you live and what birds to take?? Kevin
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birdman
191 posts
Jun 28, 2006
10:26 PM
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I agree, Kevin. More than likely it was someone that has been there before.
I had the same thing happen a few years back and got my entire stock loft stolen. Talk about taking the wind out of my sails. 7 years of hard work down the drain, and no doubt by some low-life that was familiar with my setup at the time. If there is a bright side, I guess it's given me an opportunity to test out a couple different families of really good birds.
Russ
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
618 posts
Jun 28, 2006
10:51 PM
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Speaking of new families Russ. Got about 10-12 babies coming up for ya. About half of them are banded already. All should be ready to go in about another three weeks or so.
Brian.
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birdman
192 posts
Jun 28, 2006
11:41 PM
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Wow Brian, that's great! They should be a good addition to the ones that I recently weaned and am currently trap training. Just give me a holler and I'll stop by one morning.
Thanks again!
Russ
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parlorfancier916
62 posts
Jun 28, 2006
11:56 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
(quote)"Red, next time you visit this fella, or anyone claiming to have SW background birds, if you are allowed to, look at the birds in their lofts. If you see tape over the bands....guess what.
And yes, according to several roller friends across the valley, there is a group of individuals (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) that are rippin off lofts in the valley. (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy) But that is just my own personal opinion about theives. Ask my local sheriff what I think about theives. He'd be more than happy to share that information with you.
They watch these lists, ask stupid innocent questions and even hang out in the nbrc chatroom asking suspiscious questions, a lot of them pertaining to Sammy birds. They attend different competition flys and ask the wrong questions. They attempt to contact flyers after the fly about purchasing birds. Get the point?
If you are straight, then just keep it clean and on the look out for what doesn't seem right. Honesty generally has a pretty sweet, identifiable smell to it. If something don't seem right, chances are it isn't.
Oh, and there are theives everywhere, down here we just are more inclined to shoot their asses if caught. Dead man floating can't talk.
Oh, and McCray got jacked by his friends, which just goes to show you that you can't trust anyone, anytime.
Brian."
Parlorfancier916
are you specifically saying that (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)? because if you are... I am hurt. (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 2:04 AM
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C.J.
332 posts
Jun 29, 2006
6:07 AM
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Parlor and anyone else who doesn't read the posts carefully before replying to them. No where in Brian's post did he say all Asian or Hmong people steal. He said there was a group of asian hmong in the valley that were stealing birds. A GROUP not the entire population of this Nationality. It is uinbelievable how quickly people are to get offended on here. If you would just take the time to read and digest what is written before you respond.
C.J.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
621 posts
Jun 29, 2006
11:56 AM
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Parlor, only thing you should be offended about is whether you are a thief, or a good pigeon guy. It has nothing to do with race, though in this case the culprits are of the asian persuasion. If you don't like the fact that they are asian, then do something about it. Otherwise drop the lame ass racist finger pointing comments. If you perceive non-intended comments as something that hurts your feelings...get over it.
Brian.
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KirbyRoller
4 posts
Jun 29, 2006
12:39 PM
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yep there is thief, your best friend can be a thief too.. last year i have some rollers, and it was my friend cusion that jack me.. i didnt say anything because i didn't see him do it, but if he was to ask for some i might have give him a couple but he made a mistake...so just watch out Roller pigeon guys, you never know who ganna stab you back...
Yee
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Redline Roll-N-Deep Loft
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C.J.
336 posts
Jun 29, 2006
4:44 PM
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Good post Brian. I am with you.
C.J.
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Mongrel Lofts
169 posts
Jun 29, 2006
8:15 PM
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Hi Red Devil,
Whats your real name and whats the name of the person you bought this pair from? I know both birds well.. Mongrel Lofts
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parlorfancier916
65 posts
Jun 29, 2006
10:53 PM
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ah I ain't no theif, but next time try to not write "there is a group of individuals (asian-hmong)" because that points directly to me, should've said something like, the theives are mostly asian-hmong.. because saying that puts the whole nationality in it...
Last Edited by parlorfancier916 on Jun 29, 2006 10:54 PM
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dave
115 posts
Jun 29, 2006
11:23 PM
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It is sad when I can't even trust my own people to come to my yard. From now on people will have to win my trust.
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gle619
1 post
Jun 30, 2006
12:10 AM
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"ah I ain't no theif, but next time try to not write (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)"
Last Edited parlorfancier916 on Jun 29, 2006 10:54 PM "
I have been lurking on this forum for over a year now and decided to sigh up after reading this thread. Brian wasnt calling YOU a theif nor all the people of your ethnicity. It just so happens that the group of people who are part of the roller stealing ring are hmong. It wouldnt make sense to write "the theives are mostly asian-hmong" with your revised statement it changes the whole original statement. anyways its not that big of a deal. I dont see how this became race issue at all.
anyways since this is my first post, ill give some insight on myself. Im gary and I raised rollers back in 1990 when i was 6 with my father. they were DEEP spinners with veolicty I have yet to see better birds individaully, the only problem (well not so much of a problem) were they were too deep which affected their kitting. I wanted to get back into the hobby, but just havent found the time, people, and a strong foundation for birds. Hopefully one of these days ill work things out so i can get back on board. My father and I tried getting back in the hobby back in 2002 after a 2 year break. we werent able to obtain any of our originals family of rollers. the birds we got were jaconettes but they just couldnt stand up to what we had owned, they lacked so many qualities. we wanted to start over with some good stock but it just never happened. so im back once again for good!
Ive had people come to my home to steal our pigeons. It was unfortunate people would do such things. the only good side was they never took any rollers (our main loft). i guess they thought they were colorful commies. they ended up stealing most of the birds from our second loft (show tipplers, komorners, westies, and some champion antwerps).
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 2:07 AM
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fhtfire
507 posts
Jun 30, 2006
8:29 AM
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Parlor,
Brian never pointed a finger at you...get off it dude...come on...that is the same as saying there are some individuals (black dudes) steeling cars...or Some individuals (mexicans) that are jumping people...that does not mean that all blacks steel cars or mexicans jump people. I am american indian and irish..if Brian said the same thing and put in American indian in place of Hmong I would not even bat an eye. Give me a break man. I have quite a few Hmong friends and gueass what...they would read this post and say...those guys better stop stealing pigeons. Brian did not use any slang...what is he supposed to say...There are some people of asian decent...that I believe the came from the Laos region of Asia.... Don't throw the race card man...it just makes you look bad.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
624 posts
Jun 30, 2006
11:18 AM
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Parlor....Get Over It!
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Mongrel Lofts
170 posts
Jun 30, 2006
2:19 PM
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Hi Red Devil,
Whats your real name and whats the name of the person you bought this pair from? I know both birds well.. Mongrel Lofts
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nicksiders
671 posts
Jun 30, 2006
8:37 PM
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I think you are being ignored, Kenny......could these be a couple of your birds or once was?
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jun 30, 2006 8:37 PM
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thong
2 posts
Jun 30, 2006
10:03 PM
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First, I want to say that I respect all people that love birds, no matter their origin or ethnicity or perference. I believe the more different we are, the more flavor we bring to the table. I have no time for racists, nor will throw subtle racists remarks at anyone that love birds. In my line of work, my clients come from all walks of life and backgound and there is no room or reason to discriminate anyone.
All people are bad and good---that's a fact, so lets move on.
thong
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motherlodelofts
823 posts
Jul 01, 2006
12:09 AM
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Dave are you sure that you didn't steal them from youself ? look in the garage just in case LOL LOL
There have allways been pigeon thiefs , White,Black you name it.
I'm glad to see so many SE Asians getting into the hobby, the birds bring many of us together to know each other where other wise we would not, this hobby is as about deverse as it gets,all races and all walks of life and there is no devision.
I've stood under kits in the inner city of LA to the suburbs of Mass.
When it comes to these birds there is a magic that truely happens
Scott
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Mongrel Lofts
171 posts
Jul 01, 2006
7:02 AM
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Hi Nick,
I left that pair at my good friend Jack Meyers house when I stayed down there for 4 months.. As you may know, Jack just had all his birds stolen.. I'm not sure how this pair got out from Jack, he may have sold them or gave them away.. They may also be HOT.. Either way, I would like to know who Red Devil bought them from and what both their names are. Just for the record you know.. Mongrel Lofts
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thong
5 posts
Jul 01, 2006
1:23 PM
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Scott, well said.
I also wanted to let you know that I have a hen, darkcheck-marktail, which dave gave me. He said he got it from paul fullerton that is from the pair you gave paul. Nice strong looking hen. Im trying to breed her right now.
thong
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Opinionated Blowhard
51 posts
Jul 01, 2006
1:46 PM
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I have a feeling we have heard the last from Red devil. at least under that name. Kevin
Last Edited by Opinionated Blowhard on Jul 01, 2006 4:26 PM
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nicksiders
672 posts
Jul 01, 2006
1:54 PM
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Kevin,
I think you are right.................hmmm
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Snicker Rollers
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Scotty R
2 posts
Jul 05, 2006
11:01 AM
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RED,
I Went to Sammy's for the 95 WC Reginal and finals flyThe Reg, kit was by far the best kit i had ever seen, I wanted to go home and kill everything I had.my birds at the
time didnt even come close to his kit.
A few years went by and I was moving out of State, So I called Sammy and asked if he had a few pair he could Sell me before I left, he called me in two months and said he had picked out 4 pair, i was over there in a heart beat.
I thought there's no way thses birds i got are going to be the same birds he was flying back then, I was wrong they are tight Deep and very fast, Now I did say Deep we are talking 25 to 50 feet or more Easy.
Sammy did me right with these birds, I Couldn't thank him enough, I just need to breed a lot more of them.
SR
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
763 posts
Jul 05, 2006
11:08 AM
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Scotty.Are you ready for the NBRC Fall Fly yet? You heard the tenative dates for our region didn't you? David
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RED_DEVIL
4 posts
Jul 08, 2006
10:22 PM
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i came in here to get some answer and everyone is off topic! i find this site useless and un useful....
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
713 posts
Jul 08, 2006
10:31 PM
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Hey Red Devil, just what is it that you have contributed that puts you in a position to make a judgement like that?
I have received so many comments from people who have exactly the OPPOSITE view of yours.
No one here OWES YOU ANYTHING! You HAVE received several reasonable responses to your original question, you also got more than you asked for, AND, your question inspired other thoughts in people so they want to comment.
Before you post something like you did, stop and think for a minute. You are getting all this free buddy.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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nicksiders
699 posts
Jul 08, 2006
11:00 PM
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RED DEVIL - Read the posts. These birds were bred by Kenny Billings(Mogrel Lofts) and he is asking you your name and the persons name who sold you the birds. Please respond to his questions............He knows the birds quite well.
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Snicker Rollers
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parlorfancier916
92 posts
Jul 08, 2006
11:42 PM
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(Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy),
1. $150 for a pair not seen in action
2. wants to know the background
3. says this site is unuseful
4. doesn't reply to kenny
$150 for a pair? who would say that is reasonable, also he wants to know the background, meaing he hasn't seen it fly, he also points out that this site is unuseful, and ignores kenny.. This site is unuseful because the information background like pedigree of the bird is what he seeks.
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 1:56 AM
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RED_DEVIL
5 posts
Jul 08, 2006
11:46 PM
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first i will like to thanks to those people that give me some aswer, (Edited By Moderator: See Posting Policy)!!!
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 09, 2006 2:11 AM
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parlorfancier916
93 posts
Jul 09, 2006
12:04 AM
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answer kenny's questions then.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
104 posts
Jul 09, 2006
12:19 AM
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Palor, chill, you cant start to acuse. You dont know the full scene, or this dude..
R-LUNA
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dave
126 posts
Jul 09, 2006
8:55 AM
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Red,
Even if you don't post your name, give us the name of the guy you got the birds from. One of us might know them and can tell you if the birds are legit or not.
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parlorfancier916
104 posts
Jul 09, 2006
4:32 PM
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aite red, I'm sorry, but um.. you get my point...
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