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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Preparing birds for Performance.
Preparing birds for Performance.
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fhtfire
523 posts
Jul 08, 2006
10:57 AM
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Brian M (1963)..brought up a good point on maybe getting some good posts on what fanciers do to get the best out of there birds for a comp or general performance. I would like the Comp guys to give a DETAILED response on what they do leading up to a comp...from feed..to flying...to water addatives...and what works for them....but new fliers have to keep in mind that some things will differ from loft to loft...and that is all based on the type of birds...time of year and climate...but a little detail would be great...I know that I have read a Higgins article on what he does to prepare for a comp..and I think he starts from the two week out point...it is a very good article... I would really like to hear from Brian, Scott C., Cliff and the list goes on. Do not worry about giving away secrets...LOl..because you all know as well as I do...that some secrets only work for some birds.
For the Back yard fliers....I would like you guys to give in detail what you do to get your birds to perform there best...just do it this way...a buddy is coming over in 3 weeks and wants to see your birds....what do you do to get your birds up and ready to impress your buddies.
I really hope that a lot of fliers post..because this is what it is all about.....getting the birds to perform...maybe give comments on a young bird team and an old bird team. This post will really help the new flier get in the swing of things...
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by fhtfire on Jul 08, 2006 12:40 PM
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Velo99
531 posts
Jul 08, 2006
11:01 AM
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Paul
call me. I have phone in hand. lol
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Velo99
532 posts
Jul 08, 2006
11:26 AM
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Paul,
I used Jerry`s article as a starting point.I used a racing pigeon conditioner,4n1, the week before for 5 days. Juggled the feed, both in amount and protein levels.
One thing that isn`t always discussed is carbs. Protien has to have carbs to give the desired affect. That is why I "wheated" em for three days then went to a mix of pellets,milo and a small amount of wheat the day before.
Sit down and run a schedule on paper and do a feasiblilty check. Make sure you have all of the stuff, seeds and medications.Get em really healthy and rested.Get em on a really tight schedule till the day before then change it drastically put a new bird in the box overnight and then they should be ready to rock when you open the door.
There are all sorts of "tricks" to use. Most are developed specifically for a certain fanciers birds.They may have a similar effect on most kits. SIMILAR effect. The best way is to try it on your birds. Keep in mind that kit age, time of season and temperature will have a drastic affect on your birds. Be flexible and remember the basics.
Above all K.I.S.S.
One other thing.
The hardest part of all of this is getting 20 birds together.They have to kit together,fly together, roll together,eat together..... You should have at least two months on the birds you`re gonna fly. Any personel changes within the two weeks before a comp can spell diasaster. I know from experience. I went from a 500 point kit to a zero in three weeks. I had a plan for the quals but not for the finals. I was standing there wondering what just happened. How can these good birds suck so bad in just three weeks?
Gotta be better prepared next time.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
640 posts
Jul 08, 2006
12:14 PM
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Paul, a lot of it "depends". It depends on what kit I am flying and at what stage they are at. For the older birds leading up to a big fly I first rest them for a few weeks, maybe fly them once or twice a week at most and feed them wheat peas milo. At approximately three weeks out I begin to fly them every other day and put them on straight wheat. They will fly every other day for about a week, depending on my schedule. I then try to fly them for about three days straight make sure they are getting into condition. I don't concern myself with their fly time or height, only that they are flying and putting in some work.
At 12 days out I worm them with the recommended dosage for one day, followed by aureomycin the next day and then espon salt the third day. They rest these days plus the next. Then they are flown straight every day until I see the roll start to go away, meaning they begin to go stiff. They will get rest for about two or three days and given vitamins on the first day. All this time they are still only getting fed wheat. They are flown one more time and on return fed as quite a bit of mix on return, then back to wheat for the remaining days which they are not flown until comp day. That is pretty much what I do on the old birds, but each time I have to make some adjustments depending on how I read what they are doing. I also keep the cocks and hens separate.
Now if it is a young bird kit I am flying, I don't mess with them too much. They are usually near full tilt every time I fly them. If I start jacking with them, it nearly always messes them up. The only adjustments I make to them is they are flown every other day and get to rest for two days. The feed pretty much stays the same although I will hit them with some millet or milo about 12 hours prior to fly time.
Young bird kits are easy. The old bird kits are brutal. The guys that can consistently do well flying old bird kits have my utmost respect because I know how extremely difficult it is to get the most out of them darn old birds.
Brian.
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fhtfire
524 posts
Jul 08, 2006
12:40 PM
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Brian,
Good post...I am just looking for an overall feeding program...Just what you do for the old bird team and the young bird team. Your post was good! Maybe you can post again and put it up like Day 23 fly and wheat..Day 22 Rest..and so on...that way it is easier for a newbie to understand.
To all who post..you do not need to go into the little specifics....the little specifics are what a fancier has to do once they "learn" there birds. I am just looking for a big picture to be painted..to get a newbie on the right track..sort of some rough ideas.....or a foundation to start with...with time and experience..the newbie can take all our posts and do the little tweaking to build the rest of the house...or team.
Excellent Post Brian.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
525 posts
Jul 08, 2006
12:41 PM
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Hey,
I am at work today..so could someone post Higgins article on the thread.
If any new fliers are finding this a help...please post and give your thoughts....it may get some to come out of the woodwork...Also...any questions please ask.
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by fhtfire on Jul 08, 2006 12:42 PM
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rollerpigeon1963
96 posts
Jul 08, 2006
12:59 PM
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Self Discipline
Jerry Higgins
Birmingham Rollers! There has been enough written about this bird to fill a library. I think I have read most of what has been written in my twenty plus years in the sport, and you probably have too. How much of what has been written have you put into practice?
To be a good roller man is reasonably simple. Start with good birds that YOU HAVE SEEN ROLL< keep them clean and fed and fly them regular. Pick the best spinners and breed them together and keep good records. Now that doesn't sound too difficult to do! But for some reason not many have the discipline to do these few simple things.
It takes self discipline to set a goal and work towards that goal, and in rollers you must start out with a goal in mind.
A few years ago I recognized that my rollers were not as frequent as I would like them to be, and in order to compete in such high class competition fly's as the World Cup, I would need to do something about this problem. I set a goal to resolve this problem, this was my five year plan. I am in the fourth year of this program and after the second year could start to see the improvement. My point is, set some goals for yourself and have the self discipline to stick with it.
"Self Discipline", I wish there was a pill we could take to induce self discipline. I have seen many who write articles such as this and give the best advice on how to handle the Birmingham Roller, But don't have the self discipline to take their own advice. I could write for a week and not improve on what they have written, but putting such good advice into practice is something else.
How many times have you heard someone say "Keep The Best And Cull The Rest." How many people do you think fly their rollers and watch the kit just before the break, or the bird that rushes to the front and locks it's wings just before the kit breaks?
To fly a good kit you must have the self discipline to watch the kit and see what is happening and then make a correction. You can still fly some good individual birds without doing this, but to fly a good Kit you must know what is going on in the kit. You must have the self discipline to watch the kit and the knowledge to know what makes a good kit. The best way to get this knowledge is to go to as many kit competitions as you can. Ask questions and be smart enough to learn from the good kit fliers. Good kits are built by putting together a team of Birmingham Rollers that work together and compliment each other. The best kit is not always flown by the person that has the best birds, but by the person that is the best trainer, the person that works the hardest and that will be the person that has the most self discipline.
Some people are pigeon keepers and some are true roller fanciers, and most of you know what I am talking about. You know the person that has two kits boxes and 50 pair of breeders, or the person that has rollers and 4 or 5 other kinds of pigeons. I have no bones to pick with these people, but these people can't be successful unless they are retired and work at raising and training rollers full time. Be honest with yourself. Which do you want to be, a successful roller man that is a THREAT to win in the kit competition or a pigeon keeper who just enjoys having rollers and other birds? The decision is yours.
Flying competition in FUN, but it takes work to make it fun. You can't get ready for a competition fly the day before the competition. Flying competition is fun when you're at a competitive level. Competition is fun when you know you have a chance to win. It's when you know you have worked your birds to the point that with a little luck you could be the winner. This is what makes kit competition fun.
Competition also takes guts. When the kit box door is open and the birds form up for all to see, then the B.S is over. You can brag before but now is the time for the truth. How brave are you? Are you a talker? A B.S'er? or a competitor? You are the one who must make the decision. Don't kid yourself, we all know who are the talkers and who are the real "True Masters of the Birmingham Rollers", they are the winners. They are the ones who want to go see their birds. They are the ones we want to get a few good birds from to put with our family. They are the ones we want to see on fly day. They are the ones we compare our kits to.
We will see what your decision was in the spring when the World Cup fly's start. We will see who has the SELF DISCIPLINE, GUTS, and puts the B.S aside and fly's their kit for all to see.
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stiff
2 posts
Jul 08, 2006
1:02 PM
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yes it would be nice for guys to post how they prep there birds for competion it is always a thought in all roller guys mind is how or if or what are we doing right or can I or we get more out of our birds.
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fhtfire
526 posts
Jul 08, 2006
1:44 PM
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Here is the article about comp prep for a kit of Rollers by Higgins,
GETTING YOUR KIT READY FOR COMPETITION DAY
By Jerry Higgins
Colton Reche Canyon California
California Performing Roller Club (CPRC)
In order to get your rollers ready for competition there are two primary aspects that should be considered in the following order, first the PHYSICAL condition of your rollers and second is the PSYCHOLOGICAL aspect.
Rollers have to feel good physically in order to WANT to roll and must be in good condition to roll hard with speed. Feeling good is part mental brought on by being in good health and physical condition.
Psychologically you need to stress the birds to reduce their natural resistance to rolling, stressing the birds mentally puts them on edge. The stress created excites the birds when released and induces the full measure of roll that your rollers are capable of doing. This doesn't mean it will make silk purses out of sow's ears, it means it will help you get the most out of what your birds are capable of doing.
You have seen this mental stress, maybe without knowing it, for example, when a hawk fly's in near the kit. The kit will group up closer to each other and in some instances will break into the roll at exactly the same time, this is what we will try to induce artificially during our kit preparation.
PHYSICAL CONDITIONING
If your birds are into the roll and are in fair condition, you should start getting your kit ready about 10 days to two weeks before a kit competition. The idea is not to break down your rollers to make them roll, but to put them in the best possible condition health wise so they can roll at their very best.
On the tenth day before the fly I start my preparation by worming my birds. I use TRAMINSOL which is a sheep wormer, use 6 tablets to 1 gallon of water in the summer and do not hold the water. In the winter use the same amount of wormer, but I hold the water from the birds for a day, this will insure that they drink enough of the wormer to do the job.
On the 9th day before the fly I use epsom salt which is a mild laxative to clean them out, use a full table spoon to a gallon of water, and be careful you can over dose them, especially in the summer time when they will drink more water than in the winter. This will, in it's self make the birds start to feel better. On the 7th day before the fly put the birds on a broad spectrum antibiotic like AUROMICIAN to knock down any health problems that might be present. This will also make sure the irritation and wounds that the worms leave will heal without infection or irritation. Give the Auromician to the birds for the next five days, making sure to mix fresh antibiotic each day in fresh water.
It goes without saying that the water and feed and kit box should be clean at all the times. Fly your birds every day and feed them regular pigeon feed containing peas and pop corn, try to make them fly 30 to 45 minutes and feed them to that extent. If they are flying longer give them less feed, if they fly less more feed.
It should not be necessary to starve your birds or take the water away from them for 2 or 3 days to get them to roll, there are rollers strains that roll because they like to roll when in good health and condition. I change the feed from regular pigeon mix to red wheat on the 3rd day before the fly and feed a full ration for that day. The 2nd day before the fly I again change the feed to milo and feed them a 3/4 measure, on the day before the fly I again feed milo, which is a carbohydrate for stamina, this time I feed 1/2 the regular ration of milo and 1/4 regular grain. Feed the kit at least 25 hours before you are scheduled to fly to insures that the birds are empty and have digested all the grain before being released. This feeding method will insure that the birds don't feel hungry at fly time and will have the necessary energy to roll hard.
I have seen more kit competitions lost because of birds being too hungry to fly the time or not flying high enough to perform at their best, all because of the owner messing with cutting the feed back too far or too soon. Some say to remove the water so the birds are dry when they are released, and being dry is important. Most birds only drink after eating, so no need to remove the water; if you do, remove it after the birds have eaten 25 hours before the fly.
This should put your kit in good physical health and the continual flying should put them in good condition. Stop flying the kit two days before the competition, unless your birds are very deep. If the kit is very deep keep them in one day as I do. You know if you keep them isolated to long, you will be picking them up off the ground the day of the fly.
PSYCHOLOGICAL CONDITIONING
The second part to getting a kit ready for a competition is the psychological conditioning. The things we are going to talk about work, but they must be used with COMMON SENSE, REASON and OBSERVATION. You must observe and know the mental state of the kit before you use them, this is a must.
These stratagems tools or what ever you want to call them can be used singularly or in consort, but should depend on your observations of the kit as you work up to competition day. If the kit is working at its best or at least at 90%, DON'T DO ANYTHING, in the spirit of the old adage "if it's not broken don't fix it".
If the kit is not kiting close together you might try adding a strange bird to the kit the night before the competition, add the bird after dark, if the competition is early in the morning. If the fly in later in the day adds the bird just a few minutes before the fly this will prevent the kit from becoming familiar with the bird. This seems to make the kit pull in tighter together as they would in the case of the hawk coming close or a stray pigeon flying into the kit.
To have consort in performance you must have excellent kiting, you can help the kit to tighten up, but good kiting must be bred for and should be a top goal in your breeding plan. Kill any bird that will not kit or flies at the back of the kit all the time, the flier who has the fortitude to cull these birds will have the best kit on competition day.
You can try adding some mixtures to the birds water which can improve the birds alertness and mental state. Try brewing up some regular tea the day before the fly, hold the water that day, mix some honey in the tea and give it to the birds the night before the fly. The sugar and caffeine will give them a boost and put them on edge, I have also tried Humming Bird mix, it seems to work to a lesser degree, but does give extra energy. I have heard of people trying pills and alcohol and other things, but the best is the strong tea and honey, I have even used coffee. How long before the competition do you give this elixir to the birds should be experimented with and will depend on the weather, mental state and strain of rollers you are flying.
Psychological stimulation or stress can be induced also by adding something strange into the kit box. A rubber snake and party balloons can be put into the kit box the night before the fly. Rollers are scared to death of snakes as most of you know, the rubber snake alone will not work well if left in the kit box over 2 or 3 hours without moving. If you add a small party balloon or two to the floor of the kit box all birds will be on the top perch looking down at the floor. This will induce the desired stress, each time a birds moves its wings the balloons will move and seeing the snake too will do the job. The snake and balloons should be removed about 10 minutes before the kit is released or you might roll some birds down, time should be called on the kit as soon as it gets together, they are going to be , very excited upon release, and should work their best in the early minutes of the fly.
If your kit is flat you must do something different to stimulate the kit to roll. I move the kit to a different kit box the night before the fly this will also stress the birds. In the new kit box the birds are alert to every sound and movement and will not settle down for a few hours after daylight. The Old Timers stressed the birds by darkening the kit box, this did two things, it kept the birds from moving around and quite because of the darkness, there by conserving their energy for flight. The darkness also dilated their eye pupils, which meant upon release the brightness of the day would make them pull together and kit tight and roll when any other bird rolled. This darkness effect will only last until the birds pupils retracted and adjusted to the brightness of the light. So this spell would dissipate quickly and if the birds were not bred for close kiting and rolling the birds would seem to go flat after about 5 to 10 minutes.
The size of the kit box also induces a certain amount of stress on the birds until they get used to their close quarters, close quarters seem to make the birds kit tighter. 10 days before a competition I keep my birds in a larger well lighted open cage, then move them to the smaller dark kit box the night before the competition. When I move them to the new kit box I get the full effect of the darkened close quarters environment. The trick here is not to leave the birds in close/darken quarters long enough for them to become acclimated to it.
To fly a good kit is hard work and you must have the self discipline to watch the kit and understand what is going on in the kit, and then make any necessary adjustment. Knowing how the kit feels, what they are thinking requires self discipline to take the time to watch the kit and the knowledge to know what makes a good kit and what kind of adjustment will work to correct any problems.
If you are up to the challenge you will be a consistent winner, and we will see your name on the list of the top 25 competitors in the world next year after the World Cup fly. Support the NBRC, IRA and local clubs they are the life's blood of our sport.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
841 posts
Jul 08, 2006
2:09 PM
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First it starts with your selection in the stockloft and then selection for the team .
From there you have to study the team, if you have strong stiffs leading the team, get them out of there , they are probably leading your team on the left wing and keeping the team more in fly mode than work mode .
If you have birds constantly rolling out the back when the birds havn't set up for a break, get them out of there.
Watch for birds cutting across the front of the team trying to lead theteam on one wing , to work well the team needs to fly a pattern and not stay on one wing.
Pulling a problem bird or birds can make a huge huge difference on the teams work rate.
As for setting up the team, first,the better the team the less that you need to do.
It starts in the stockloft, I want birds that want to roll but are stable , with too much heat (instability) birds just roll and roll with no teamwork, normaly the qaulity is crap also as they try to fight it and qaulity is not high.
You can also over stimulate a good team and get the same effect.
I have found that there are no secrets , there are things that you can do to juice a team but if it is a good team to start with you can easily shoot yourself in the foot.
Number one thing is that I know my birds inside and out. they are out of the same mold in nearly every aspect as far as feed and handling.
In other words they are a "family" and are bred out of a pretty tight gene pool (that works) , unless you have this you truely won't understand the benefits of it.
As for the team itself , prior condition plays a huge role as to what I am going to do.
If my team is right they are birds that roll without manipulation but condition will up the work rate,qaulity, and depth.
I will normaly start them out by flying hard on wheat about two and a half weaks out , then lock down and rest up for about four days feeding up on a mix with plenty of protien but lean on fat.
This will build them up and prep them to have the stength to roll hard, at about 7-8 days out back on Wheat they go and back up in the air
They will come out flying strong and to fast , I will fly straight for 4 days which will slow them down and bring them to a point where you about have the roll flown out of them but not beat down.
Then I will rest them for two days , feed up on Wheat the last fly day , good feeding the following day, no feed the day before the fly , and a handfull of millet the morning of the fly to take the hunger edge off a bit.
I have found this to be the most consistant for my birds as far as holding qaulity , the two day rest and no feed the day before stimulates them slightly.
In order for it to work the birds can't be beat down or they will land on you due to no stength and hunger , when they are in this type of condition they will maintain qaulity (or should).
Keep in mind this is just a basic guideline that I will use for "MY" birds
I may use vitamines and minerals in the water also on the rest days.
I never worm and or salt em which in turn knocks them down , it is like any heavy stimulation, it may work or may make them bomb.
If the team isn't a very good team I will try heavy stimulation tech. trying to jerk more out of them.
There are several ways to stimulate the team, one is to fly hard for a period of time and rest for 2-4 days.
Or put them in a strange kitbox and is completly differant from what they are used to (always good for more points without over doing it), juicing with heavy minerals such as redcell , change feed , hunger, thirsty , ballon in kitbox , vibrater (12 in. purlple by Lucky Lady inc. ) in kitbox ect.
If it is a good working team I like the mild stimulation of hunger and or kitbox change.
Bottom line is learn your birds and learn what makes them tick , and you can't be to nice to them or to hard on them.
Like I said earlier , there are no secrets , there is only learning "your" birds.
I have nothing set in stone and there are several was to skin a cat , I can and will adjust what I am doing day by day on coming up on a fly, weather, work,along with gut feeling or condition of the team or lack will have me being flexable on what I am going to do.
I might also add that the reputaion of the judge will play in also to a degree , if the judge is loose I will stimulate more at the cost of qaulity and team work to a slight degree.
If it is a good or decent judge I will go for straight qaulity with slight stimulation, of coarse the hard part is hitting the mark where you want to hit it and the birds wanting to do it on that day , sometimes it doesn't matter what you do it still gets ugly.
I might also add that I never pull the stops out for a regional fly , it is to hard to get them right again for the finals.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jul 08, 2006 2:42 PM
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fhtfire
527 posts
Jul 08, 2006
2:39 PM
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Here is what I do to prepare for a comp. Again....like Brian posted..there are a lot of little factors that you need to take into consideration during your prep...but that is when you get to know your own birds. I am just going to give you a very broad overview of what I do. Some competitors will get there birds in semi prep mode for the qualifiers so they can get them in tip top shape for the finals...sometimes you get them in such good shape for the qualifier and when you fly again for the finals weeks later..you can't get your birds nailed down..because you had them peaked weeks earlier in the qualifiers.
For my birds...I usually fly them on the 3 day yo-yo system so they are in OK shape most of the time....but not tip top shape. During my Yo-yo system...I will feed a full ration of my pellet mix on the day that I fly...I then cut the birds ration by 1/4 for the next day..which is the rest day and continue to feed my pellet mix..on the next day of rest I will then cut another 1/4 or maybe a little more during the summer and give them wheat and milo on the second rest day...and then the next day I will fly...and start all over again.
Then when comp time is coming I start really start evaluating the kit and removing problem birds...I try and get my fly time as soon as possible so that I can get my birds on the same fly schedule. I usually fly my birds in the morning..if my fly time is at 2pm...I want to get my birds on that schedule as soon as possible...I like at least 3 weeks notice. Like Brian said...problem birds are pulled as soon as possible. I can pull one or two birds from my team with minor disruption to the team...they usually regroup. Any more than 2 birds and my team will feel the affects. Adding a bird or two..gets there timing off..but they usually recover in a week of hard flying and they get the timing back. So..at three weeks out..I will rest the birds for about a week and feed them my pellet mix...than at or on about the 2 week mark...I will put the birds on straight wheat or wheat/milo and fly them hard...everyday. When At 14 days out I will worm them and cut the feed enough to give me about 45 min flying time. I usually keep them at about 45 min and slowly cut the wheat until they are flying no less then 30 min. On the 13 day I will give them an antibiotic, and on the 12th day I will give them another day of antibiotic. On the 11th day I will give them nice clean water....On the 10th I will give them a ACV. On the 9th day I will give them clean water again. On the 8th day from comp I will worm them one more time. On the 7th day some nice clean water. On the 6th day I will give them some elecrolytes. On the 5th day I will give them some Epson salt to clean them all out. On the 4th day I give them a shot of Red Cell. On the third day I give them fresh water again and they get fresh water for the remainder of days up to the comp..remember...feed is being adjusted according to fly time...and damn it...write down how much you feed and the fly time for each day...on the third day from the comp is there final fly day. By this time they are really feeling good and are in real good shape..like Brian said..they start to get a little stiff...but they are amped...they are really into the flying. After I fly the third day I will give them a full ration of the pellet mix...a shot of good feed...then I go back to my yo-yo-system..They rest from this point to the fly day...On the first rest day (2 days out)I then cut the feed by 1/4 and give them straight wheat and then I cut them back again the day before the fly(the last rest day..usually it is the ration that has been keeping them at the 30 minute mark of flying through my training..but the last day of rest before the comp I will give them Wheat/milo 50/50. Then about 4 hours before the fly time I will give them 2tbs of Canary seed...just enough to take the edge off and it seems to work good for my birds. Since they have been flown everyday and then get the two days of rest...they really want to fly...they are feeling good from the good mix..kind of shocks them...but then the wheat and milo from the day before the comp..slows them down...they should roll nice and hard..but of course..this does not always work...LOL But most of the time it does.
So..I fly them hard everyday...on wheat only and give them different treats in there water at certain days...three days before the comp is the last fly day and on that day..they get a full ration of good feed. Then Rest...Wheat..smaller ration...then rest...wheat/milo (ration that kept them at a good fly time). The canarey seed is something I may or may not do..it just depends on my gut instinct on how my birds are flying and me..knowing my birds.
With red cell and canarey seed and epsom salt..you must do some trial before you do it...to make sure it will work with your birds...some families..canary seed will make them over active...some families that get red cell will make them fly fast....E-salt sometimes is to hard on some families.. WIth my birds it just makes them feel good..that is it...
The key is to not starve your birds but to make them feel good...with any athletic mammal...they are at there best when feeling good with good diet and training.
I would suggest that you set different "fake" comp days and try different feeding and flying styles and see how your birds react. Just remember that when you get them in good shape..you have to wait a month or so and get them back into ok shape to get the full effect of different training plans. Again, old bird teams are different then young bird teams. Old bird teams can really be tweaked..but young bird teams...like Brian said..you can usually mess them up if you tweak them. There seems to be a point in the development of a young bird team..that only lasts about 2 weeks...that they are superstars and would Whoop many an old bird team...that is in my young birds..but it is a short window that they perform real good and I am convinced that it is just a point in a young bird teams development.
This is just what works for my birds. My birds like to roll and do not have to be starved to get them to perform. But..my birds have also made me eat some good old fashioned CROW!!LOL!!
The most important thing is picking the right birds for the team...birds that do not kit or roll from the back are not the birds you want. You want a team that looks like it hits a wall and just explodes on the breaks. Does not matter how you feed your birds if you have the wrong team. I have pulled some of my best spinners...just because the were not team players.
The final week is crunch time...I DO NOT ADD BIRDS OR SUBTRACT BIRDS in the final 10days..what I got is what I got...You should have weeded out the crap before then...the only time I remove a bird is if it is injured..sick..or not kitting at all....I only add a bird if I need 15 LOL!!! When you have a team dialed in and in tip top shape..the final week or so is when you can screw them up by moving birds...I lost 4 birds 2 weeks out and 2 birds 1 week out from my world cup fly and it was not even close to the same team..prior to the losses.
If I feel the birds are over done or getting in shape to quick during the 2 weeks of flying I may rest them a day or two during the two weeks of hard flying. The little things that you do like extra rest and red cell and the list goes on....are just the little things you do when you know your birds...
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by fhtfire on Jul 08, 2006 2:49 PM
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fhtfire
528 posts
Jul 08, 2006
2:53 PM
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LMAO>>>>12" purple vibrator...LMAO....Man it is bad enough that I get crap about my birds from my wife...My loft would be my new place of residence if I used the stimulator from the top of the closet..for the birds..LOL!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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dave
122 posts
Jul 08, 2006
3:27 PM
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I try to make everything as simple as I can. I don't try to use things to stimulate them as I found out that my birds will be lawn darts if I do. I'm just a rookie but here's what I do. I put them on a four week keep. First week is rest week and I don't fly them. They get a rich feed of peas, wheat, milo. I then fly my birds on a schedule like Paul's, fly one day and two days rest. On fly days I feed them the mix and on rest days I feed them wheat. My birds will at first fly high, fast, and long but I don't really care about that. I just want them to get into shape. By the last week they will not fly as high and not as fast. Last day of fly I feed them the mix and then wheat on the next 2 days of rest. I pull the water the night before if they fly the next day. This works for my birds and it is real simple. I just keep my feed the same at all time. I don't care how long they fly. They can fly for 2 hours but for that first 30 minutes I just want them at a height where the judge will be able to see them.
I also pay attention to the weather and adjust my feed accordingly. For me the last 3-4 days are the most important. I also never add a bird to the team in the last 3 weeks. I will however pull a bird or two out that is giving me trouble. If I have to fly less than 20 than that is fine with me.
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parlorfancier916
91 posts
Jul 08, 2006
8:04 PM
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I don't want to fly in comps yet (not ready to), but I do fly them in a local club fly (though we don't consider ourselves a local club but just a group of friends who hang out together and are interested in rollers). well I tell you that I start feeding them (instead of leaving a tray outside for a week because I am too busy with my parlor rollers) so that they don't always feel hungry for 2 weeks before the fly also I bring in a big plastic bowl and fill it with water for them to take a bath(they love it, they will swim all day unless if it is feeding time or 4 o clock when I remove the bowl). I also lock them up for a week,let them fly, then lock them up for another week so they have the urge to roll and won't lose any depth. I'll feed them grain and sometimes I put parakeet seeds into the feed as a snack. then when it comes time for the local fly I let them fly..this is my technique I've been using. I try to make the birds happier, and feel relaxed. but this is my technique tho..
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thong
16 posts
Jul 08, 2006
10:36 PM
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great post all. We really need stuff like this! It helps the new guy and old alike, as we get to see the wide range of variation that you'll have contributed to the roller pigeon. Anyone is missing some real good stuff if they missed this thread.
All of the above posts, and Ill add my rookie expereince so that the rookie can relate as well. Over a few years, I have learn alot about the roller. Different families are sometimes like apples and oranges when put in comparison. What I learn that work best for me is a family of birds that flys at a good height, not skying out. Likes to roll no matter what you feed or how often you fly them. Have a good flying time with out controlling the feed can--meaning 30min to 1 hour. I found this type of bird to be easier to manage for a rookie.
Vise Versa. you have family of birds that are molded to what the breeder likes and for this type of bird, the rookie must listen to the advices of the breeder.
thong
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dave
124 posts
Jul 08, 2006
10:57 PM
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Parlor, we all have to start somewhere. We have to just have to start and then build from there.
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parlorfancier916
94 posts
Jul 09, 2006
12:09 AM
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yea,what do you guys suggest me to do to better prepare the birds?
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nicksiders
700 posts
Jul 09, 2006
7:07 AM
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Uh....read the posts and adopt what best fits your family of birds and then stick to it......?
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Snicker Rollers
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dave
125 posts
Jul 09, 2006
8:52 AM
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Parlor,
Ask the guy you got the birds from to see what is the best way to get the most out of your birds. Try his method and if he doesn't then there have been a few that have been posted above already. It is a trial and error thing so you have to work on it and see what gets the most out of your birds.
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Major-ret
24 posts
Jul 09, 2006
1:34 PM
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Thanks guys for an excellent topic and responses. As a newbie and thinking hard about flying the NBRC fall comp, this info helps in figuring out what to do to get the most out of the birds. I can understand the benefits of narrowing down the different families to 1 to 2 inorder to get flying time/kitting and feeding working for the kit to maximize performance as Scott has done. With just a year under my belt this is not so easy because of the limited birds to fly. Thanks to Paul I have a good direction/family X 2 to concentrate on, now all that is needed is patience with fingers crossed. Thanks again guys. Steve
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Double D
258 posts
Jul 10, 2006
7:16 PM
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Excellent thread! Every once in awhile there's a thread that's worth saving to a Word document on my hard drive for future reference. This is certainly one of those. I appreciate this topic because I feel this is probably one of the areas that I need to make the most improvement in - learning how to feed my family of birds.
I'm getting closer but still have much to learn!
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Darin Olson
Checkerboard Lofts
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Velo99
536 posts
Jul 11, 2006
5:04 AM
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Here`s what I did my first season as far as gleaning information.
I would sit here and read,then read some more,then run outside and see if my birds had whatever I was looking at. Run back in and read some more. Eventually I developed a basic UNDERSTANDING of the birds I had in hand.Once I got to there I would read other things to refine my kit and program overall. Ya gotta think like a pigeon and understand the rollers impulses,patterns,and habits. Sometimes they just do stuff.
Spend a lot of time under your kit(s). Thats the best. In prepping for the WC I just watched what these guys were saying, and did a bit of research to find publications by the winners in the sport and used their methods. By the time I was actually putting it into practice I was pretty well prepared.There are two years worth of posts on this forum. Four major flys are discussed.
When you can take the pebble from my hand it will be time for you to go Grasshopper. lol
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Ballrollers
398 posts
Jul 12, 2006
10:57 AM
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Good thread, Paul. Dave Gehrke published a great article on this in the Roller Journal. I will hit the high points of the article for those of you who are not subscribers. The standard "break-down cycle program" used by most flyers seems to me to yield mixed results, at best. Once in awhile the flyer gets the birds to peak on the day he wants, but more often than not, it is the day before or the day after. The day after "peak", your birds are typically reduced to "dishrag" quality with loose, sloppy form because the conditioning cycle has completely broken them down. In order to bring them back into peak condition, you must rebuild your birds before starting over with the breakdown cycle. Theoretically, as we reduce the amount of protein available in the feed, either through amount or type of grains we feed, we decrease their resistance to the roll.The only problem is that we may not know exactly where the birds are (condition-wise)on the cycle when we begin, so they may peak the day after the judge arrives. If your birds have not fully recovered from your last cycle when you begin, there's a good chance the birds will peak the day before the judge arrives, and they look like dishrags on the judging day. The amount of protein in particular varieties of grain can also be inconsistent. Difficulties with airline schedules and fly times in prior regions may cause the judge to arrive a day late throwing your breakdown cycle off, as well.
With all these variables that I see consistently affect the "readiness" state of competition kits, and with the consistent number of DQs from veteran flyers, it has caused me to look into other systems. The one that makes most sense to me, that I wll be using this year, is less hit and miss. It is a three-day rotation based on Monty Neibel's "yo yo" system, but slightly different, as outlined by Guil Rand in the Roller JOurnal. Day One-fly the kit; feed two cups(20 birds) of 12-14% pigeon mix. Day Two-Rest the kit; feed 20 birds one cup of hard red wheat. Day Three-Rest the kit; feed 20 birds 1/2 cup of hard red wheat. Day Four-Fly the kit, same feed as day one. The full ration of pigeon mix is important to build up the birds with a full selection of Austrian peas, milo, safflower, and wheat. Feeding them just wheat on the two rest days evens the birds out.Two days of straight wheat will get the work rate with the quality that we are after. The feed on day two should be adjusted up or down slightly in quantity based on the flying time during day one and based on the anticipated weather on the next fly day.This system is recomended only for mature birds, not young birds.
Since the birds are built up and broken down every three days, they don't suffer as much deterioration of body muscle that may occur in a more drastic breakdown cycle. Their overall performance will be more consistent every time you fly them. They can be kept on this cycle for several weeks, but it is advised that they get consistent feed for a week every third or fourth week. Then they can go back on the system. The real advantage of this system is tht it allows you to keep the birds in a good flying condition without deteriorating their bodies as in other "breakdown" systems. The birds are usually very hungry and in a slightly weakened state every time they are flown, so they will fly about 30 minutes and at a very judgeable height.
YITS, Cliff
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