J_Star
510 posts
Jul 12, 2006
4:41 AM
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Yes CJ, but thieves can always go around them vicious dogs. The smart thieves will invest in a nice juicy cheap cut of beef laced with poison. The following night, the dogs will be in no shape to chase anybody. They will be contented in a spot taking their last breath. So, you end up losing your birds and your dog also. The best thing is to fortify your loft like the ones you see in some pictures in CA. Even that is not full proof.
Jay
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Santandercol
181 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:28 AM
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All I have for security is hook and eye latches so the door doesn't blow open!!I live at the south end of the island,away from the ferry landing,so we don't get many theives down here.One of the relatively crime free parts of the world.Just lucky I guess. ---------- Kelly
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
105 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:45 AM
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Kelly, allright -allright lets just stop the boasting (L O L), must be nice to live out there.... Later EH R-LUNA
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C.J.
414 posts
Jul 12, 2006
10:33 AM
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Thank God I don't live where you live. In Canada you would spend the rest of your days in jail for killing a guy. That shows little value for human life even if they were a criminal. You are only allowed to use enough force to stop the criminal. That here would be considered more than a little excessive. As for a criminal feeding the dogs I have seen dogs trained that will only take food from their owner. C.J.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
643 posts
Jul 12, 2006
11:34 AM
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CJ, Everyone is entitled to their own opinions about such matters but I tell you this with 100 percent certainty, criminals such as thieves are proof that humanity has #%$ked-up the natural process of thinning the herd. I guarantee you that if you or anyone else comes to my property and breaks into my loft or my house, there will be a 1,500fps lead cranium ventilation program there waiting for you. That is guaranteed! Get past the gate, get past the dog and get past the locked door, that person's intentions are clear and will be dealt with accordingly if caught. I could take anyone's ass out silently with my bow and a nice broadhead and not a soul would know, other than the one that just made a fatal mistake. I own my own little, microscopic piece of the American pie and will protect and defend it until I am unable to do so, regardless of what the laws say. I don't expect others to embrace my convictions and trust me, I have friends and know other people who unfortunately are waaaayyyy more ruthless about dealing with people than I prefer. But you have to draw a line somewhere. Break my law, and that person is fair game and will be hunted down like the POS pig he is.
BTW, the most fortified loft I ever saw was made of cinder block with iron doors and windows and protected with a couple of mean ass pit dogs. The birds still got stolen as the thievin' MFers used a ladder from the neighbors yard and cut a hole through the loft roof. Nothing will stop those who are dead set on stealing...except getting caught. Then may God have mercy on that pathetic soul. Brian.
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C.J.
415 posts
Jul 12, 2006
12:39 PM
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Brian remind me never to peeve you off. Oh and to make sure I call if I am in your area and want to visit. I can see you are a little passionate on your stance lol. C.J.
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parlorfancier916
109 posts
Jul 12, 2006
12:49 PM
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C.J. what are these zip wires you speak of?
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J_Star
512 posts
Jul 12, 2006
12:56 PM
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I agree with you Brian in many things but taking a human life is a serious matter for stealing pigeons especially in the eyes of our judicial system. Although, the law thinks that pigeons are replaceable but the years and effort you put behind building the family of birds is priceless and can not be replaced. At the same time we have to take every precaution to protect our property with every means we have.
So, it is a good idea maybe that when someone establish an excellent family is to share some of that blood with some trusted friends and fanciers who will never dilute that blood with anything and breed them true so that if you lose all your birds due to theft, it would be much easier to get back on your feet by getting some of your birds or the same blood back from them.
CJ, dogs are scavengers by nature. They were born that way and no matter how trained the dog is and when their master is not looking, they will gobble up anything that smells good to them even if it is in the garbage can. That is a fact. So, in the middle of the night when their master is sleeping and nowhere around, a smelly piece of beef is better than life to them thinking that their master will never find out about it. Just food for thought…
Jay
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Heyyou
11 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:02 PM
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And I thank anyone that will listen that I don't live in Canada Where I couldn't own a gun if I wanted to so only the criminals have them. If we could legally shoot more criminals the word would get out and soon they would be the endangered ones instead of us. I work for what I have and I will not let anyone steal it. It's past time to weed out the culls so good people can live well without fear. If you commit a crime you deserve what ever happens to you and you dont deserve to be coddled or make a deal to get off easy, you deserve punishment, even for stealing birds. I would not just blast away at a thief, I would give him the chance to lay down and give up and if he didn't, that's his problem not mine.
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RED_DEVIL
13 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:24 PM
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about the stealing situation if anyone trys to steal my birds i have a glock with two clip and all are loaded with hallow point bullet...will some people think that its not gonna effect or do any impact hey you can come and try my loft if my glock runs out i will get my special gun this gun will shoot 30rounds with a auto trigger so don't under extimate this cause it will do major killing...as my name is RED_DEVIL i believe that killing is nothing it doesn't mean anything to me!
Last Edited by RED_DEVIL on Jul 12, 2006 1:25 PM
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J_Star
513 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:32 PM
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Yeb, tough talk we all do, but in reality we should offer some logical solutions to solve a lengering problem. I don't think anybody want to spend 30 years behind bars because of pigeons. I for sure don't. I have much more to live for and enjoy.
Jay
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Velo99
539 posts
Jul 12, 2006
1:40 PM
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Jay, Thats twice you have said it is just pigeons.Why would you kill someone over pigeons?
Cuz they are mine! Not yours! I worked for them. I have them in the loft I built. In the yard of the house I bought. In which my family resides. Today he gets your birds. Next week your tv and computer then your car. What if he steals you life Jay. Murder is just theft of life. Why ask why?
I will kill someone in a second who breaks into my house or yard. I have a locked gate motion lights and a no treaspassing sign and a 12 guage.
Thats why I live here and not in Canada. What I have is mine, not part of some liberal socialist government mandate. yits ---------- If they don`t kit,they don`t score. Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly. It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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fhtfire
530 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:23 PM
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J-star,
I know you say that they are just pigeons...The same thing could be said if someone breaks into your house...it is just a watch and TV...I tell you what. My property is where my driveway starts and my back fence ends....ANYBODY on my property..not my house....will get once chance to leave...if they are on my property and I do not know there intentions if they are snooping around in my back yard...guess what...under the law..if you feel that you are in danger...you have a right to protect yourself....Trust me...I am friends with a lot of Police officers...you can put a gun on them and give them a warning that you have a weopon and they must leave...or you can hold them at gun-point until the police arrive...if they take ONE step in your direction or show any type of aggresion...you have a right to shoot. There is no differenct between someone in your back yard taking stuff or in your garage taking stuff. That is stealing...of course..if nobody is there and you give a verbal warning that you have a weapon...Hey...they turned toward you or said they were going to kill you...guess what..I pulled the trigger...as I feared for the lives of myself and my family....but if the perp...has a shot in the back...you will have some explaining to do.
As for dogs being trained not to eat...yes they can be. My father had a guard dog german shepard...trained to guard his shop...guess what...that dog would not eat until you gave it the command. They are trained that way...for the very reason of a criminal feading your guard dog poison meat. Police dogs are trained the same way....so are some hunting dogs. It is training. I kid you not...my old man...bet a guy that he could throw a steak in his lot and the dog would not eat it...guess what...that steak was still sitting there a week later until my old man told me to go pick it up because it was stinking...and my old man was 100.00 richer This dog would not eat unless my dad gave him the command or anybody else that new the command..LOL!!
As for shooting a man...well you better have good reason...and that reason is protecting your life and property...would I kill a guy for being in my pigeon coop...No...WOuld I point my SHot gun at him...yes I would...if he made one step toward me would I shoot...Yes...I would shoot him in the leg....WOuld he die...NOPE...He would hit the ground...I would call the cops and the paramedics and hold the gun on him. IF he got up and tried to attack me after being shot in the leg...well..I have 3 more shells....He has one more leg...it is hard to walk with #4 shot in each leg. So no..you do not have to kill a guy. But again...to each his own and every situation is different. BY LAW IF YOU FEEL THREATENED YOU CAN USE DEADLY FORCE>>>police officers have to follow more rules to engage with deadly force then the public...but you better make sure that you feel a threat...and it is a threat that a jury would agree on.....Now a guy stealing your birds...sees you with a gun and starts running away and you shoot him in the back......well that is not a threat...hit him in the leg..LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
723 posts
Jul 12, 2006
2:41 PM
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Hey All, I don't think anyone is saying you should not protect your birds, its just that the more harsh measures you take, there is an equivalent downside in todays more liberal and politically correct environment for any actions you take.
Here in Missouri, you can carry a gun, there seems to be an unspoken rule that if you try breaking into a home, you are likely to meet the barrel of a gun as you come sneaking through the window.
A certain Dr. John Lott has written a book that shows in areas where it is permissable to carry a gun, crimes rates of all kinds are much lower than in areas WITH gun control.
The threat of harm coming to a thief is often enough deterrence and will keep most non-drug crazed idiots away.
I see my German Shepherds barking and carrying on as a notification of a threat, once notified, a well placed gunshot will do the rest.
Just be prepared to deal with the legal consequences if any of injuring (or maybe worse) a thief while protecting your property. ---------- FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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C.J.
417 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:26 PM
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HeyYou Ah you need to check your facts. In Canada we are able to own guns. We just aren't allowed to shoot criminals. In Canada we have guys trained to do that. I don't know if you have heard of them they are called Police Officers. In fact I myself have a large colllection and so does each of my sons have them as well. We just use ours to shoot wild game such as geese, deer and such. The rule of thumb I taught my boys was if you are prepared to eat it then don't shoot it. There are a few acceptions to the rule though. A few years back one of the government bone heads thought we shoot have to registrer them all but the new government is in the middle of scrapping that. What was thought to costs a few millions ended up costing billions and a lot of guys didn't register. C.J.
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C.J.
418 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:32 PM
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Parlor a zip line is a wire cable attached to a post. The cable is anywhere from a quarter of an inch to one half inch in diameter. They are connected to posts dug into the ground. The ends are attached with clip fasteners that allows for easy removal. If you have Pit Bulls put them on these at night and the racket they will create will wake the dead. When I started this thread it was to hopefully get some constructive ideas on loft security not a debate on whether or not people should kill people who steal pigeons. I hope we can get a constructive thread going here. Parlor any other questions feel free to ask. C.J
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birdman
194 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:47 PM
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CJ, so what you are saying is that if an elk, deer, or bear broke into your house and threatened your well-being you could shoot to protect yourself? But if an armed criminal broke into your house you could do what, throw bullets at him? And you think that's a good thing?
I cherish my 'Right to bear arms" and would never trust police or government to protect my personal interests. My freedoms are 'individual' and I will do whatever it takes to protect my family or personal property.
England, Australia, and South Africa are some shining examples of what happens when law-abing citizens give up their abitlity to protect themselves and instead rely on the government. CJ, go ahead and trust your police force if you wish, but I choose to trust Winchester, Smith and Wesson, and Ruger.
Your friend, Russ
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C.J.
419 posts
Jul 12, 2006
3:59 PM
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Ahhh Birdman If you read my post up above this one I state that I didn't start this thread to discuss whether or not you have the right to bare arms. Good for you as long as you deal with people or in this case criminals the way you feel is appropriate I am happy for you. Now lets get back to the topic at hand. What security systems or set ups have people got in place or have heard of. I am well aware of the gun one does anyone else have anything new? C.J.
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Heyyou
12 posts
Jul 12, 2006
4:12 PM
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Ok then back to the subject, security. There are several outlets to purchase the best security device known. They are infrared activated game cameras and are also movement activated. They are not expensive and include a camera with no visible flash and , bingo, you got your perp. I have them installed at my home and set them when I expect to be gone for any length of time and they take pictures of all those that come around my place. I had these in place about 10 years ago and was burgled, two chainsaws stolen, the photos showed the car, license plate, person etc. This was before two big dogs and a good gate. After downloading the photos on my computer and going to the local county mounty, they called me the next morning and returned my saws. The guy did 18 months and was killed in a car wreck a month after getting out. He was running from a break-in, that's justice.
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brian430
29 posts
Jul 12, 2006
4:38 PM
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hey look guys, to make a long story short, no matter how many guns you have,(witch i have),no matter how many locks, bricks, lights, dogs, or security you have, it basiclly comes down to where you live unfortunately. I'm not sure who the fella was that lost those birds just this week, but I feel for ya. all i can say is either move to country or, use force to protect your family and property, or both.... ---------- Brian in Ludlow, MA
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birdman
195 posts
Jul 12, 2006
4:55 PM
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CJ, I did read your post and it sounded a bit like a sarcastic remark that you have 'trained' people called police to shoot criminals. Well, we have trained police here too but they aren't assigend to every house so we do the best that we can within our legal rights. In keeping with the post I should mention that I left out Remington, Casuul, and Mossberg. Those are MY security measures and I sleep good at night knowing that I can shoot as well as our 'trained' police, and my response time is much quicker too cause I'm already at the scene of the crime! LOL Cheers!
Russ
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Santandercol
182 posts
Jul 12, 2006
5:38 PM
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Richard, Yeah,EH!!It's pretty sweet here alright.Keys stay in the ignition all the time. But HOLY MACKERAL!!!Seems with all the guns you guys have,there should be no crime down there.Listen,,,I know a guy who had such a problem with theives in his roller loft that he designed a gun small enough for his pigeons to shoot.Imagine that!!It worked.True!!!No Mierda. ---------- Kelly
Last Edited by Santandercol on Jul 12, 2006 5:46 PM
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Velo99
542 posts
Jul 12, 2006
6:35 PM
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Yeah but Kell, You live on a tiny island bro. How far can ya run? To the ferry landing? lol ---------- If they don`t kit,they don`t score. Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly. It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Santandercol
184 posts
Jul 12, 2006
7:22 PM
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Kenny, Yeah,truthfully,the cities are just as bad for crime up here as down south.If only we could do away with hard drugs and poverty,eh. ---------- Kelly
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
730 posts
Jul 12, 2006
8:31 PM
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In case anyone missed it:
A certain Dr. John Lott has written a book that shows in areas where it is permissable to carry a gun, crimes rates of all kinds are much lower than in areas WITH gun control.
The threat of harm coming to a thief is often enough deterrence and will keep most non-drug crazed idiots away.
In the larger metropolitan cities in American where gun control is the law, the crime rate is higher by far than in areas with no gun control and carry and conceal is allowed.
You never know if grandma is packin or not. Do you want to find out?? LOL ---------- FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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3757
64 posts
Jul 12, 2006
9:27 PM
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In Cajun country, where I am originally from, we just hit them with buck shots and feed them to the gators. It is a win win situation. I have no tolerance for thieves!!
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Santandercol
190 posts
Jul 12, 2006
10:13 PM
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MotherFire, Glad ther's a border there on the 49th parallel!!!Peace Bro's. ---------- Kelly
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J_Star
514 posts
Jul 13, 2006
5:19 AM
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Like I said, we all talk tough. We will shoot and kill anybody who is going to break in and steal a TV or VCR. Or jumb the fence in the backyard to steal my beloved pigeons. The law sees it differently thou. If you could not prove to the courts that your life or your loved ones live was in an immediate danger and you had no choice but to use deadly force to neutralize the assailant, then you are just a murderer. I know, you don't like reading what I am posting but that is the facts. Laws were put for us to be civilized and live by them. You just cannot take a human life because of losing materialistic things my friends. That is why we have insurance on our properties such as cars, house contents, home, and boat etc., then why not on pigeons!!! Set a value on your pigeons and buy insurance just in case the birds are stolen.
It is just the offence and the hatred we get knowing that we’ve been violated by scrums who break in the middle of the night to steal what we worked hard for. If the thief was inside your house and you felt threatened by their presence and you shot and killed the scum, the law is much friendlier to you in court than if you shot and killed him in your backyard because he was stealing your pigeons. Not just because it is a replaceable property, it is because he did not threaten your life and the life of your immediate human family. If the thief was inside your house and you confronted him but he was able to run outside of the house and shot him dead, your ass is in big trouble with the law and you are considered a murderer. Please consult with your law enforcement of what you can do to protect your property and when you can use deadly force. We have allot of people reading these post and some are not so sharp and believe everything said and written here and they might get the notion that they can shoot and kill anybody who step foot on the property to steal something. Please folks be responsible when posting. That is my take!!
Jay
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
732 posts
Jul 13, 2006
6:19 AM
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Hey Jay, you are correct. Killing someone over pigeons is not the smartest thing you could do. Especially when they are replaceable.
However, there is nothing wrong with deterrence and intimidation and the threat of violence that will get someone to think more than once about stealing them.
Check with your local law enforcement or a defence attorney (you might need one) about this matter. ---------- FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Santandercol
191 posts
Jul 13, 2006
6:22 AM
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Right on Jay! ---------- Kelly
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C.J.
428 posts
Jul 13, 2006
6:41 AM
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Man I am not quite sure how this thread got so off topic. It is like it grew legs and ran in a totally different direction for my orinal post. My original post was offering advice to Parlor on how to use his PitBulls as part of his security system. Then I thought some of you guy probably had some good ideas on how to secure a loft. I didn't mean to start the debate on whether or not you should shoot a theif or not. Or whether you had the legal right to. That is neither here nor there because every single on of us has our own opinion on the matter. Lets remember that young audiences visit this site and try to get back to what the original thread was about. So let me rephrase my question. "What security systems do people have in place other than killing someone". Lets say if you were away on vacation and no one could come over and sit on your front porch with a gun. So what is ib place other than shooting the guy. Or better yet what security systems have you heard of that guys are using. I hope this helps get things back on track. I am hoping to find solutions for our fellow hobbiests who have been robbed. Heyyou I must say I did find the camers post interesting. Where did you buy that system? C.J.
Last Edited by C.J. on Jul 13, 2006 6:43 AM
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Fanaddic
15 posts
Jul 13, 2006
7:00 AM
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An option I would suggest is the timed camera that takes a picture of the decided spot. This has been used by bow hunters for years. You can get a newer one that is digital and you would have instant pictures (camera functions by movement). Erase the crap every once in a while and you might be surprises what you see daily around you loft. Racoons, cats, and maybe even people. This will not stop the theif but will catch the person in the act on a hard copy. You would need to set the camera box up so it would give the best view for a photo but also were someone could not just walk off with it. Just a suggestion Fanaddic
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motherlodelofts
843 posts
Jul 13, 2006
7:08 AM
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Nine times out of ten it is going to be local kids trying to steal birds. Dogs are your best bet along with a secure loft , you can also get cheapo battery operated alarms. Here I have three dogs and five geese that even tell me when a dog is taking a leak in the middle of the night. Plus the loft is right outside my bedroom sliding door. For most just deter the local kids and that will solve most problems. I guess that you could just pop one and hang him over your fence would be a pretty good precaution also, he would probably grow up to be a dope smoken liberal anyway so you would be killing two birds with one stone LOL
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jul 13, 2006 7:12 AM
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knaylor
262 posts
Jul 13, 2006
8:36 AM
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Scott, be quiet and get back on your merry go round! LMAO
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nicksiders
707 posts
Jul 13, 2006
9:36 AM
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Well, I am a Liberal and like most of my liberal friends we do not do any drugs to include tobacco and alchohol. It's my redneck friends who are doing the beer and whiskey and toking the weed.
---------- Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jul 13, 2006 12:37 PM
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C.J.
429 posts
Jul 13, 2006
10:08 AM
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Motherlode I like the geese idea. We had them on the farm and if anyone came onto the property they would sound off. They would also run small predators off. Thanks C.J.
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J_Star
515 posts
Jul 13, 2006
10:09 AM
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CJ, Where is your original post to this thread? I see if I was the one who initiated the thread...What happen?
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jul 13, 2006 1:05 PM
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Mr.JX
14 posts
Jul 13, 2006
11:13 AM
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Even if you win you will be stuck in a long court process trust me. They don't care what you did, in court there are many steps and process that you have to do. Even if it was beyond a doubt that you was right. You have to meet a certain yearly income to get public defenders, if you don't thats money out of you pocket.
If you have the time and money go ahead and shoot them. I don't I just call 911 when my alarm goes off.
Jim X.
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Santandercol
193 posts
Jul 13, 2006
6:23 PM
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Jay, He deleted it by accident.Hey,I like the camera idea!! ---------- Kelly
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Velo99
544 posts
Jul 13, 2006
6:55 PM
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Hey Fan, What you would do is post the pix in conspicous places where a thief might unload a few birds ---------- If they don`t kit,they don`t score. Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly. It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Fanaddic
16 posts
Jul 13, 2006
8:21 PM
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V99, I would say the more the picture gets out the better, shame the bas--rd in public. We let it slide to often when someone gets caught.
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Santandercol
195 posts
Jul 13, 2006
9:24 PM
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NOW you're talking justice!!!Probably more effective than these prison systems we have.Cheaper too! Health to the Birds, Kel.
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