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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
My Story
My Story
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Spud
9 posts
Jul 17, 2006
1:11 PM
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I have been “lurking” on this sight for well over a year, actually closer to two. I haven’t posted much simply because I didn’t have much to say not possessing any Rollers. I’ve had Homers for thirty years and did have Rollers as well many years ago. With the rising costs of flying homers, I had begun to research Rollers, thinking I might make a move to them. My goal with the Homers was to win the five hundred mile race which I did this year with a bird out front by 32 min. I also had bird of year so I couldn’t ask for a better way to go out. Now let me tell you about today! I went to visit the best roller flyer in Montana, and certainly among the top in the country, Rick Schoening. I had been corresponding with Rick about getting into Rollers and so when I was ready to take the plunge he was willing to set me up with a nice family of birds. Today I have in my loft two pair of breeders and five youngsters from Rick. These are birds down from Monty Neibel. A very nice family, all handle the same. Small little balls of energy! I’ve been doing my research by reading this sight every day, and I’ve read Winners with Spinners, True Spinning Rollers I and II, & of course The Birmingham Roller Pigeon by Pensom. I went through all of these books at least twice trying to take in how to fly these little performing pigeons. I think I’m ready, I’d better be!! Also I have set my homers up to lay hopefully at the same time as some of the breeders of Garry Barris and he is going to give me the eggs to foster. They are from the Less Bazance family. Nice birds. I laid out with Garry on his lawn last week and watched them work. Absolutely amazing! Certainly not the kind of rollers I had back in the 70s. So here I am now, a part of the Roller fraternity. Thanks for having me and I’ll try to keep you up dated on how the birds are doing.
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
106 posts
Jul 17, 2006
1:54 PM
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SPUD, welcome to the hobby and good luck.One thing i can advice is that i hope you dont compromise with seeking high quality of the roll and style, your the coach and the trainer,develop a high class pigeons and oh-man what a nice feeling and a good accomplishment it is to achieve.
Once again i wish you the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
R-LUNA
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nicksiders
716 posts
Jul 17, 2006
2:32 PM
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I can tell already you are loving it. They are a wonderful little bird with a lot of character and history. They also can be an aggravating little bugger. Fly them often.
Welcome back.
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Snicker Rollers
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C.J.
445 posts
Jul 17, 2006
2:57 PM
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Spud welcome to the fantastic world of rollers. It sounds like you couldn't get any better mentors then the ones you have found. Feel free to ask as many questions that come to mind. The majority of the guys on here have a wealth of knowledge just waiting to pour out onto this site. Hell sometimes we tons of things we don't want lol. But that is what makes it great.
C.J.
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motherlodelofts
849 posts
Jul 17, 2006
3:52 PM
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Good to have you spud !!!!!
Scott Campbell
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Spud
10 posts
Jul 18, 2006
4:29 AM
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Thanks Guys, I apperciate the warm welcome! These birds have settled right in and claimed a nest box already!
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J_Star
522 posts
Jul 18, 2006
4:38 AM
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Welcome to the site and the hobby Spud and enjoy. As you have enjoyed it for couple of years standing on the side line, hope you will enjoy it even better as a player. Enjoy your birds.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jul 18, 2006 4:39 AM
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Ballrollers
400 posts
Jul 18, 2006
10:00 AM
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Spud,
I don't know. You may want to do a little more research and consider picking up a family with a little more heat. No reflection on Rick, of course. He's a great guy with a lot of experience in the hobby. But the Niebels are not recommended for new-comers in the sport and I would hate to see you get frustrated with kits of fast flying, stiff birds that don't come into the roll until after a year or so. Personally, I don't have that kind of patience. I want to see something spinning by 6 mos. If I were you I would consider a family with more heat, that are easier to manage. You will have more fun, I promise. My good friend, Clay Hoyle, last years Fall Fly 20-bird winner and this year's US leader in the World Cup, raised a couple kits off of Rick's Neibels just for the challenge, and it has been an excersize in frustration. I see them fly and they fly like homers...fast, low and stiff. If a guy with his experience is having trouble getting them to roll, I'd steer clear of them. JMHO Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jul 18, 2006 10:00 AM
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3757
69 posts
Jul 18, 2006
11:51 AM
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Cliff - Good post! Do you know if Rick's birds from Monty are straight? This is interesting that Rick's birds are late if they are from Monty. The reason I state this is because Monty's birds from what I have seen are early developers. Both of our mentors Bruce Cooper did not believe in late developing birds. Even though the birds are what some would call hardcore Pensoms down from 3757(119/514). Monty's birds were 99 percent down from Bruce's stock. I have a good friend that has some birds directly from Monty and they are early as well.
Dr LD
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Mongrel Lofts
193 posts
Jul 18, 2006
1:33 PM
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Hi Spud,
Welcome to the hobby and sure glad to see new comers to the sport.. Do you live up by Rick and will you be flying in our region?
I also have a small stud, by small I mean I started with two cocks and one hen from Monty and have been playing with them the last few years.. Just like any family you have to select what you want from them and mold them to fit your requirements .. I won the 11 bird NBRC national with one bird bred from the Monty stock that came to a 20 foot roll at 3 months old.. She was a solid 30 to 40 footer by a year old. I flew her out for 3 years and never a mistake.. She is mated now but I pull her off her babies or eggs every now and then just to let her fly with the kit.. She has never been released and failed to put on a nice show of deep quality roll.. My point is, Monty's birds have all the things most good family's have in them.. Both good and bad. Some are late and some are early and some come in the middle to the roll.. Its up to you to select what you want from them..You never get the best birds you will ever own from someone. You breed the best birds you will ever own!! These guys that get a bunch of birds and think they know what a family is capable of by flying a kit are ignorant..Monty's birds have won 4 world cups and came close in the hands of more than just himself.. That speaks volumes about the quality of his birds.. Welcome to the sport and good luck.. Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Jul 18, 2006 1:36 PM
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Ballrollers
401 posts
Jul 18, 2006
4:06 PM
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LD and Kenny,
Well, that is very interesting to know that there are also early developers in the Neibels. LD, to the best of my knowledge, Rick's birds go back to Monty, but I don't know how far removed. Kenny probably knows. Kenny, I know what Monty was able to do with his birds, but nobody has been able to duplicate it with his birds since his death, including Brian Krog who got the cream of the crop of his breeders (but I don't have to go back over that story again with you). Many of these birds today are Neibels in name only, like many of the Pensoms; they are quite different today.I recall a post of Scott's where he dabbled in a a couple of those birds, too, but shit-canned them because they didn't produce to his liking. In the end, I'm sure that you may be correct, in that there are a variety of qualities in that family today, as in most other families. But I stand by by assertions that it is a difficult family to work with, for a relative newbie. In my opinion, he'd be way ahead to get birds from you or Scott or a number of other families to start out with.
YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jul 18, 2006 4:08 PM
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Spud
12 posts
Jul 18, 2006
5:08 PM
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Hi Mongrel, I live in Montana, but several hours from Rick in the Bozman area. That's why I went to him for birds. I knew up front they are prone to fly and have to be mangaged for the roll. On the up side, they never over fly or blow away. They are strong flyers and man do they look it. What I really want to do is to get some experience with the birds and Rick has given me that opportunity. I'll let you know how it goes. This may not be the family I stay with forever, but I think it will be a good group to learn from.
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Mongrel Lofts
194 posts
Jul 18, 2006
5:58 PM
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Hi Cliff,
Only half the story Cliff.. First Krog.. Krog had all Monty's birds before Monty passed.. What was he able to do with them then? Krog had birds direct from Loyd Thompson, renowned for winning flys with young birds.. Teams of deep hot young birds.. What flys did Krog win with those birds? You can't judge Monty's stock by the fact Krog is not a comp flyer or a handler of rollers..
Cliff, how about John Wiens, John has Monty stock.. John has won the WC and came close a few times.. Hmmmmm That means only Monty and John Wiens can handle the birds right?
Another man that flys Great kits of Monty birds is Al Hunt and until they killed his birds, Neble Eckels, SP.
Rick's teenage son flew a pretty good team off the Monty stock in the prelims this year Cliff and Beaver Daytons teenage boy is doing a pretty good job with them also..
I fly the best I breed from Monty's birds in my best teams and they handle and roll no matter what you feed or how you fly them. Thing is, just like my own birds, the better you are at handling a team and working them to point, the better they are.. I'd almost bet your birds are the same.. Or do you have World CLass fly's all the time no matter how you handle and fly your birds?
Probably help if we just bred a few rolldowns into the Monty stock to heat them up right.. LOL Cliff, we just disagree because like everything else, or life experience with this breed comes from to different ends of the roller world.. No surprise..
Looking forward to meeting you at the convention.. See ya soon.. Mongrel Lofts
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motherlodelofts
853 posts
Jul 18, 2006
7:01 PM
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Cliff never did my limited experiance with those birds influance me into thinking it isn't a good family.
I just didn't have enough birds (4) to find a producer to hone in around.
No they are not full of instability (hot) so they don't give a false impression of many being good only to have them bite the dust by the time they are mature or soon after.
My family is much the same way and once mature they need handling or you will never go anywhere with them.
The fact is "most" don't do very good with "any" family due to they all take handling and learning your birds, the hotter families is about keeping them from biting the dust on to families such as my own where I need to polish them up through conditioning.
Monty didn't get where he was by mistake nor did John Weins.
Scott
PS see you Thursday !!!!
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jul 18, 2006 7:04 PM
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Ballrollers
402 posts
Jul 19, 2006
8:14 AM
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Scott and Ken,
Let me clarify guys. I sure didn't mean to sound like I was saying that the Neibels were a second rate family, in any way. I am very aware that there are men that have been very successful with them in competition. I was just questioning whether it was the best family to start out with. But your perspective on the matter is interesting, Scott. Working with this family is, perhaps, not really any different; just working at the other end of the spectrum. See you guys tomorrow.
YITS, Cliff
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Spud
13 posts
Jul 19, 2006
10:31 AM
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Cliff, do you think I should cull these birds and start over?
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Ballrollers
403 posts
Jul 19, 2006
3:36 PM
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Spud,
I guess I didn't read your first post well enough and didn't realize that you already had them in your possession. No I wouldn't go so far as to cull what could potentiallly turn out to be great producers of quality performance. Culling is for birds that don't cut the mustard. You are fortunate to have been offered birds by someone with his record and experience in the hobby. Now if this time next year you are still watching them fly in fast circles, you may want to reconsider! LOL! Time will tell.
If you had not already obtained them, I was urging you to look at all your options. If you have seen the birds fly at several lofts and are aware of their pluses and minuses, go with 'em. Just be prepared for the potential down sides, and all families have them. Stay in touch with Rick and other guys that breed the family for any pointers they may have. That mentoring is as important as the family of birds you select. Personally, I like a little more heat than what I have seen in the Neibels, and what I have heard reported by others who have raised them. But as Kenny and Scott and LD brought up, I have not seen ALL the Neibel birds that are being bred, and apparently they are not all the same with regard to training and development. So, I stand corrected.
My brother got back into rollers early this year and after attending some competitions and flys, decided on Jaconettes from Danny Horner. (The turkey didn't even select my own family of birds! LOL!)The slow flying wing-action, depth, and early development are the things that appealed to him. And he has seen what Brian McCormick, Clay Hoyle and lots of other guys locally are doing with them. He has really enjoyed watching them coming into spin now, as well as how easy they have been to train to fly correctly and kit. I think most of us need those positive experiences in our early months to offset the negatives such as predators, flyovers, disease, etc. But you're going in with your eyes open. And if they don't work out for you, you won't be the first guy to start over with another family. You'll do fine. Welcome to the hobby and Good luck with them!
YITS, Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jul 19, 2006 3:51 PM
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Spud
14 posts
Jul 19, 2006
4:38 PM
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Thanks Cliff, I had no intentions of culling the birds, I just thought I'd throw out a "pitch" and see how you would swing at it. Home Run Buddy!
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