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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Need All the Roller Comunity's help with this one!
Need All the Roller Comunity's help with this one!
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Outlaw Vizsla
16 posts
Jul 21, 2006
4:51 PM
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To all:
I first need to properly introduce myself…My name is Matt Rogers and I currently reside in Canal Winchester, OH. My wife and I have three Vizslas that we regularly hunt and run competitively in field trials. I’ve been working with pigeons, quail, pheasants and chucker for years while training our dogs. Several months ago I was introduced to Rollers while discussing birds at the local feed store. Like everyone else starting out I received some poor quality rollers and in my frustration I found this forum. It wasn’t long before Paul Fullerton got ahold of me and straightened me out. He put me in contact with Mort Emami and together they provided a ton of guidance and some very very nice birds. These birds have gone on to produce my first kit birds which up till Tuesday were kitting like glue and starting to show me 5’ rolls. In the NBRC 2006 auction I was fortunate enough to win 8 more birds from Paul. These birds combined with my current flyers and squeaks coming up in the nest boxes were to be the making of my first team and planned entry for next years world cup.
Enter my neighbor…My Wife and I moved into our current residence April 15 2004. After three months of living here we elected to install a fence so we could allow our dogs to run freely in the back yard. While the construction crew was here installing the fence out pops my neighbor and starts yelling and cussing at the crew about the fence. I was forewarned by my wife and when I arrived at home was greeted by my neighbor asking if the “F-ing crew was going to clean up their F-ing mess.” Nice way to meet your neighbor for the first time. Similar things of this nature have happened over the last two years of living here and have escalated into our current problem.
Monday July 18th 2006 I’d just released the birds and had a young red grizzle hen sitting on the box watching. Halfway through the flight she flew off the box onto my roof, the kit dropped down to try and pick her up and she attempted to join them but tired out quickly and landed on the above neighbors shed. 2 min after she landed out he came shouting at me to get the bird off the shed. I tried to explain that she was young and just learning to fly. The situation broiled from there and resulted in 20+ min of him screaming at the top of his lungs at me and every 2nd or 3rd word was F-this, F-that, F-you. His parting screams and threats were “You’d better have a F---‘n license for those gawd dam f---‘n birds” and “I’ll F—‘n fix your birds, I’ll F—‘n fix your dogs and I’ll F---‘n fix you and your wife!!!” The last comment resulted in me paying a visit to Columbus Police and filing menacing charges against him.
I’ve had my birds on lock down now for the past couple of days. One because he threatened to shoot the birds, and two the little red grizzle hen sadly never returned. Today when I arrived home from work I found two letters in the mail from Columbus Public Health(CPH). The first stating that I have
”domestic, roller pigeons residing at the above address, and that the other domestic, roller pigeons may not be properly confined while on your property as stated in Columbus City code 2327.11. Please provide proper confinement. Failure to comply with these laws can result in legal action.” 2327.11 Animals running at large: (A) No owner of any animal shall permit such animal to run at large on any property not his own. (b) discussed unleashed dogs. (c) Whoever violates this section is guilty of permitting animals running at large, a minor misdemeanor. (D) This section does not apply to homing pigeons bearing official bands.
Second letter: “It has been brought to my attention that you may have roller pigeons residing at the above address. If so, this would be in violation of Columbus City Health Code 221.05(b)…”
(B) No person shall keep, store maintain, shelter or care of, at any time, animals of the ……captive wild fowl, and all domestic fowl in any pen or enclosure on any premise, lot or parcel of land in the City with out written permission from the Health Commissioner.”
In short I need your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1.)All of my birds are banded with IPB or NPA bands and according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary “Function: noun: a racing pigeon trained to return home” Well they race around and come home seems simple enough to me. However the contact at CPH is stating that my bands may not be officially recognized by a sanctioned local or national club. Till this is cleared up I’m on permanent lock down.
2.) The second letter isn’t all that bad I have to fill out 6 questions concerning the birds send it in at which point another letter is sent out to me where I provide more specific info about the care of my birds, standard of care for my birds, etc. Then after that I get paid a visit by the CPH to demonstrate that yes my birds are cared for, they fly and return, and I’m doing what I say im doing. Then a letter is sent around to the neighbor hood asking if people would be offended if I have these birds. Then at which point CPH will determine if they will give me a permit.
I’m not exactly sure what I’m looking for right now as its been a whirlwind nightmare the last few days. I’m sure Paul can clarify what I would need from all of you in the way of help. But I’m probably looking for letters or e-mails that I can show to SPH proving that yes these birds do home back, the IPB and NPA bands are official bands. Letters and e-mails testifying to the amount of care we put into these birds(meds, cleaning, etc. ) Right now my heads spinning from all of this so I’m putting this out there …ANYTHING!! Will help!
To the Mods…if any of the above language(even though its been bleeped out) is offensive please feel free to restructure as you see fit. To everyone else thank you in advance…I really hate to have come this far to be stopped by this neighbor.
Sincerely,
Matt Rogers
BTW…I am a member of NBRC.
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Phantom1
140 posts
Jul 21, 2006
5:15 PM
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Matt,
Sounds similar to the challenges I could find myself dealing with, if the time comes someone feels their life is not fulfilled without making someone else's a living hell.
First, pigeons are not fowl. Chickens, Geese, and Ducks are really what the ordinance is referring to.
Second, in the event you need to challenge this nonsense. Racing Homers are no different than any other flying breed. They are bred and FLOWN for their performance ability...Period. Yours are banded, so you can probably get that whole thing dropped.
Third, I'd advise the city, county, whatever that in accordinance with their laws, they should probably start construction on that 40 mile square enclosure so that no sparrows, grackels, bluejays, cardinals, finches, ducks, crane, geese, etc flying overhead can intrude and infringe upon the written laws.
Birds and other wildlife were here before we were, and will be long after you complaining neighbor has moved on.
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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birdman
201 posts
Jul 21, 2006
5:42 PM
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Contact the American Racing Pigeon Union for advice. Their website is www.pigeon.org
I'm sure that they can direct you to someone in your area who has resolved similar problems.
Russ
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
656 posts
Jul 21, 2006
5:56 PM
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Sorry to hear of your problem Matt. That really major league sucks!
Each city has its own verbage and specifications within its ordinances. Where I live pigeons are classified and grouped with "fowl" and fall under the guidelines and ordinances that pertain to the keeping of "fowl". Now pigeons are not "fowl" and are not "exotic". So it might be an idea to present clarification of what context they are using for "pigeons".
You actually have it pretty good in a sense as many/most cities won't even give you the chance to "prove your situation is of merit". They just show up, cite you and give you a set amount of time to remove the birds from the property. It would appear that isn't the case with your city.
Your bands are from National Clubs. I would think all you need to do is contact the band director for the IPB and NPA. The NPA website is NPAUSA.com. The NPA IS the National Pigeon Association by which it provides bands and services to the pigeon community and it's members. Proving the bands shouldn't be a problem at all I would think.
Proving your birds homing ability is easy, just get them really hungry so they won't fly long and let them out for the city inspector to see they will go out and will return, nearly on command if they are hungry enough, and trap in. Hopefully your birds have had time to know the area.
You will want to have a nice set up that is clean, well maintained with food and clean water. You should show how your feed is kept in a nice clean place, that the water is changed daily. Show them vitamins and supplements that are used to give vitality to their health. Make sure there is no crap build up around, keeping the loft area looking well maintained and non-offensive. You know, one of those places when people come over, they are surprised that someone would keep pigeons in something so nice.
I would contact the AU Racing Pigeon Organization as they are well tuned to these types of legal battles. They will be able to provide specifics as to what necessary steps in terms of legality and documentation will be necessary to sway the interpretation of the ordinances.
I would contact other roller/racing pigeon fanciers in your area to see what things they might have learned from a similar situation they may have exprienced in that area.
I would contact at least one, possibly several Avian DVM to get something in writing from them which states the falsehoods that surround pigeons and public health problems.
I would comply with the city and their requests. If you try to play hard ball with them, you will lose. The inspectors follow the rules. Often if you can provide evidence that the claims made in the complaint are outlandish and untrue, often this weighs heavily on the decisions that are made.
The one BIG problem you have is that based on what you stated, the final straw is what the neighbors have to say. Being that your neighbor next door is a bonafide jerk, that will be a problem for you. If you could convince the remaining neighbors of your good faith with your birds and get them to agree to you keeping them, optimistic thinking would say that maybe there is a chance the city would agree to your permit based on the conditions and control methods of your pigeon husbandry.
Ultimately, your best bet is to contact the AU. This is their prime territory and they know this deal in and out. They keep attorneys on retainer just for these types of issues their members face.
In the end, with some luck you might be able to win this deal. But you will still have problems with your neighbor no matter what. I'd just move and be done with it. This guy will continue to make your life hell even if the city says it is okay to keep the birds. Sad, but true.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jul 21, 2006 6:01 PM
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tapp
105 posts
Jul 21, 2006
7:37 PM
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I agree with Brian, I'd move away, you will never have fun training and flying with your neighbor living there. He'll harrass and kill your birds that stray on his place.He will make life miseribale for you and your family and pets.
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Tapp
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Velo99
555 posts
Jul 21, 2006
9:35 PM
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Matt,
In most places it is unlawful to knowingly kill or harass a banded bird.
My suggestion would be to get the good neighbors over for a get together and show off your digs. Maybe your neighbor will shine his ash to them as well and give them a reason to gig him. They probably don`t like him either.If you have the support of the other neighbors it could help you get permitted.
Maybe you`ll get lucky and the grouch will just explode!Seems people like that have meaningless and mundane lives. They feel the need to project their inadequacies on others.
Or invite the grouch over and as soon as he steps in your house kick his butt and call the cops on him for B&E. lol/jk
yits and good luck bro.
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 21, 2006 9:40 PM
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Heyyou
23 posts
Jul 22, 2006
9:30 AM
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First thing I would do is get a no contact order for the neighbor ensuring that he can not harrass you any further. Next research your city ordinances to be as well versed as the people in charge and then contact a lawyer to write and send a letter to the city expressing your right to keep the birds as they are not fowl and fall within the same status as parrots, canaries, doves etc. A little offense does not hurt but lets the city know you can hurt them in the pocket book if need be. They are all sensitive about money. The air space above your house and the neighbor belongs to all and if he shoots any of your birds have him arrested even if they land on his house, for discharge of a firearm. The city regs were designed to keep people from making city lots into small farms with chickens, ducks, etc. Not pets for enjoyment. Don't roll over very easy. Force the city to prove their stance if they take one, a court of law may see this differently than they do.
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fhtfire
541 posts
Jul 22, 2006
10:00 AM
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Kenny,
I think that it is Fedral law...that you can not shoot or kill a banded bird...if you know that the bird is banded. I will try and look up the law...I know some avian science organizations as well as the Pigeon union fought for this law to protect banded birds...for the reason of being owned or studied..or in a race.(lots of money involved in pigeon race...and a lot of very powerfull people raise pigeons.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Velo99
556 posts
Jul 22, 2006
11:03 AM
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Paul,
I knew there was something,wasn`t sure. I do believe in Matts case the grouch would be violating this statute.When your neighbor keeps pigeons one would have to reasonably assume that any pigeon in the immediate vicinity would be banded.
Matt,
It might be time for some loud flourescent color bands. No mistakes then.
One other thing. Take your NBRC bulletin with the membership list to them and show them your name entered as a member. This might make the bands more official since they are recognized by the NBRC. Where`s Tom? He is a lawyer and a roller guy. He night be able to shed some light if someone would care to direct his attention to this thread.
Tony, whatcha think boss?
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 22, 2006 11:11 AM
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Velo99
557 posts
Jul 22, 2006
11:35 AM
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Matt,
Check this link
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusohodakron_dayton.htm#s3
This is from Dayton and Akron but it is a precedent.
92.03 Killing or injuring animals.
No person shall maliciously, or willfully and without the consent of the owner, kill or injure any animal that is the property of another. This section does not apply to a licensed veterinarian acting in an official capacity or an animal warden or dog warden acting pursuant to this chapter or provisions of the Ohio Revised Code. Penalty, see §92.99. (R.C. §959.02) (Ord. 728-1973)
E. Pigeons.
1. No person shall keep or harbor the common Asiatic pigeon. Racing and banded pigeons, banded with a seamless, numbered leg band, issued by an active pigeon club, raised solely for the purpose of showing and/or racing may be raised in lofts constructed and maintained in strict compliance to existing zoning and building regulations for secondary buildings. Lofts should be constructed to allow freedom of movement for the birds, usually five square feet of open bottom wire floor space per pair with rodent- and vermin-proof walls and closures.
2. The keeper of racing and/or banded pigeons is required to comply with all standards and requirements of the American Pigeon Fancier’s Council (APFC).
3. The Director of Health shall investigate or cause to be investigated any complaints related to the raising of racing or banded pigeons. If unsanitary conditions, unreasonable noise or odors are not corrected in a reasonable period of time, the Director shall order the loft disbanded until such time as the required corrections are made to the satisfaction of the Director. Penalty, see §92.99. (Ord. 242-1998; Ord. 716-1992; Ord. 514-1992; Ord. 94-1989; Ord. 290-1969; Ord. 289-1969; Ord. 239-1969)
92.01 Running at large.
A. For the purpose of this chapter:
1. “At large.” Off the premises of the owner and not under restraint by leash, cord, wire, strap, chain, or similar device or fence or secure enclosure adequate to contain the animal.
2. “Stray.” An animal running at large without identification.
3. “Identification.” A valid registration tag issued by the county of registration or, if registration of the animal is not required by law, identification shall mean a collar, tag or microchip worn by the animal at the time the animal is apprehended, which either includes the current name, address and telephone number of the owner, keeper or harborer, or refers to a national registration database designated or approved by the City of Akron, which database includes the current name, home address and telephone number of the owner, keeper or harborer.
B. No person being the owner, keeper or harborer of or having charge of horses, mules, cattle, sheep, goats, swine, dogs, cats, geese, or other fowl or animals shall permit the same, except homing pigeons bearing official bands, to run at large on any public way or on any public ground or upon the private property of another.
C. No owner, keeper or harborer of any female dog shall permit such dog to go beyond the premises of such owner or keeper at any time such dog is in heat, unless such dog is properly in leash. The owner or keeper of every dog shall at all times keep such dog either confined upon the premises of the owner or keeper, or under reasonable control of some person.
D. The running at large of any such animal in or on any of the places mentioned in this section is prima facie evidence that it is running at large in violation of this section. Penalty, see §92.99. (R.C. §§951.02, 955.22) (Ord. 109-2004: Ord. 332-2002; Ord. 728-1973; Ord. 231-1973; Ord. 721-1957)
Maybe you could get the ordinance changed to read performing instead of racing. This would cover all breeds of pigeons. Ask the council if the ordinance does indeed protect rollers and tumblers.
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 22, 2006 11:37 AM
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Velo99
558 posts
Jul 22, 2006
12:41 PM
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Matt,
What does Columbus have to do with Canal Winchester? From what I see Canal Winchester has its own charter and government. Seem to me you can tell the Columbus guys to go pound sand. CW does`nt have pigeon ordinances, other than cruelty to.Are you in Franklin Co.?
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
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Planet_Rock_Lofts
56 posts
Jul 22, 2006
4:23 PM
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Sorry about the neighbor and the headache,
Please keep in mind that every state and city is different in regards to its codes and statutes. I think Phantom1 said it best, "Pigeons "by definition" are not fowl. Depending on how anal your city council is they could cause trouble. It does hurt to be prepared and stay on top of the code of the city. You may have to go before the city council and show them that you have Rollers and not just some common feral pigeon. Remember most people don't understand, so you may have to educate them.
Good Luck
Planet Rock Lofts
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Heyyou
24 posts
Jul 23, 2006
9:52 PM
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The guy sounds like a mental case or the type that rants and raves and gets what he wants that way. Do some detective work and check out his last neighborhood, bet you will find he was run out of there. Chachi sounds like a neighbor I would like to have a beer with. Some people in this world are just here to make life miserable for the rest of us and take great pride in doing so. I would get all the info I could and more and keep some in reserve just for leverage just in case you need it. And by the way, he has already asaulted you and you could swear out a complaint against him for that. Battery is the physical thing so check with your local police again about your rights and make it plain you want them enforced. Good luck to you.
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AIREDALE
25 posts
Jul 24, 2006
3:01 AM
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Sorry about your problems "Outlaw". Make sure you thoroughly check with the local Bureaucrats.I know in my area it depends on who you talk to,to get accurate information.Some local officials will say "keeping Pigeons is against the law" others will say "their not allowed".I recenly went through this even after paying for a permit.It seems every government department has a different take on the laws.The one person who gave me proper advice was from animal protection.He even told me that there was a proposal before the city council to require a license to keep pigeons.He also stated that this would only entail permission to inspect the premises for cleanliness and that the bird were properly cared for.Just make sure you get the correct info.Typically, if the official you're dealing with does'nt know the answer he'll make it up or send you to someone else.Lots of luck.
John
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
769 posts
Jul 24, 2006
4:51 AM
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Hello Matt, here are my thoughts:
You need someone on your side who understands how the legal game is played. Hire a lawyer, unless you do, you are groping in the dark and hoping the system is going to give you, the average “joe” some kind of justice. Without a lawyer, the only justice you will get from them is a 30 day notice to get rid of the pigeons.
Print this thread and give a link to it to your attorney. Provide him/her with the contact info for the racing associations and national clubs. Find the weakest part of the local regulations against you and exploit that.
It’s about money and/or power, show them (through your attorney) that the city’s ignorant position on your pigeons is gonna cost them money. Should you lose, inform them that you will appeal their decision, further costing them time and money.
Let them understand the less painful solution is to let you have the roller pigeons and perhaps setting up some guidelines for you and any future roller breeders.
One of my customers (breeds roller pigeons) recently had the same problem with a neighbor, he hired an attorney who pored over the city regulations and found a loophole. He was given a letter my some city official indicating that he was within the regulations to own a loft full of roller pigeons. This was in Texas.
To top it off, this guy never had to go to court or the city council meeting, his lawyer showed up at the city council meeting and had his say there. The guy with the rollers was told to stay home, let the attorney do what he is paid for. HE WON!
If he wins this for you, provide me his name and number so we can refer him for you should his services be needed by others in your area.
Should you win, post the news at all your local feed and pet stores, maybe even refer the attorney and any supportive council members so they can be supported by you and others in the next city election.
++++++++++++
To help Matt out, and by extension everyone else, who would be willing to contribute to help him offset his legal fees? For this help, perhaps we can post the details of the case (including costs, etc) and how it was won/lost for future benefit of others?
I will be willing to start the contributions in the amount of $50 if somebody else will at least match it. Any takers?
(I will collect your contributions made out to a hired attorney. If there are interested people, let me know and I will contact Matt and make the necessary arrangements to help fund his fight. The donor list will be kept private except to others who contribute)
Anyone interested?
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by Tony Chavarria on Jul 24, 2006 4:52 AM
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Outlaw Vizsla
17 posts
Jul 24, 2006
7:06 AM
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Tony & everyone...
Thank you for all the support and ideas. I'm sorry I haven’t responded back but this weekend was pretty busy with researching, calling around and the work I've been putting into the house to move out of here.
While I appreciate the offer to help pay for legal fees and such I really don't think that’s going to be necessary. I'm going to play the Columbus Public health game and file for the permit. But as things stand right now this guy at CPH isn’t going to budge on the classification of pigeons as fowl or allow me to fly the birds even though they are banded. And even if we were to win the right to get the permit CPH still has to put out a questionnaire and survey to folks 1 mile around my area asking them if they have problems with me keeping the pigeons and flying them here. So in the end I can still loose do to public perception of the pigeon being a flying rat.
I guess the final straw was Sunday, I snuck out at 5:30am to let my three kit birds out to fly. Sat on the back steps and just watched. My best bird a pure jet black W/F Emami cock had been starting to show some small flips with good frequency. Two mins into the flight I got to see my first true roll. WHAM!! 15' lightning fast little ball bearing and just as fast as he'd done that he was back at the front of the kit setting up again. I watched him shoot 6-8 of those 15'-18' rolls and rocket back to the front of the kit. Towards the end of the flight he was showing great promise of being the trigger bird for the kit. He had the other two setting up behind him and they'd waterfall right after him. Sadly 20 min into the flight i watched as they swung around to the front of the house disappeared for about 2 min and came around from the right(over the top of the problem neighbor house) and only two birds were in the air. They trapped 5 min latter minus the Black cock. I have no clue what happened, I highly doubt that he rolled down, I have no hawks around...I can only assume he was shot down. A quick trip around the backside of the neighbor hood in the truck found him and his wife standing on the back porch at one point i did see him motion towards the woods and they both walked back into the house.
I spoke with the guy I train my dogs with and he's going to let me move my kit boxes and breeding loft down to his property. The birds will have to be re-homed once there, but that shouldn’t be to hard with only two birds in the kit box right now. I'm down at his property 3-4 times a week working my dogs and while its not the same as flying them everyday 2x a day its better than not getting to fly them at all.
While fighting this sounds like the thing to do, frankly my wife and I are emotionally shot right now. The thought of having to bust are butts over the next month to finish the basement install a patio and all the hundreds of other little things just to get out of here and not be able to enjoy the fruits of our labor...well just plain sucks!
More to come later I still have a few more people to talk with this week...it may not be over yet but right now its probably best to just move the birds till my wife and I get a new place with more property and no zoning or city ordinances against birds, dogs, ect.
Thank you everyone for the offers...especially Tony. He and I have only talked once when I got some bands off of him. But it just goes to show you the caliber of people we have in the hobby when they offer up to help someone they hardly know out of a jam.
Again thank you for all the advice...I'll keep everyone updated on the on goings of this situation.
Sincerely,
Matt Rogers
Outlaw Vizslas & Outlaw Rollers
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J_Star
531 posts
Jul 24, 2006
7:11 AM
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Count me in for $50 also. When you are ready, let me know and I will send you a check.
By the way, if I were you I will not move my loft just yet. It will be the last thing to do and that when I get my 30 day notice to disband it. You will be viewed as conceding to you grumpy neighbor.
If I were you, I will not wait for the CHP to send out the questionnaire to your neighbors. I will start it first myself by collecting signatures from as many neighbors as I can along with their names, address and phone numbers. It is a good way of meeting the neighbors and telling them of the hostility you got from the next door neighbor. You will also educate them about your competitive sport and introduce them to the NBRC fall fly and the WC competition fly. Once they understand that the hobby is to compete and keep you and your family together in the backyard, you will peak their interest. Then invite them to your backyard when they have time to demonstrate and show them how things are and what those pigeons can do. You will make allot of friends.
In regard to your next door neighbor, the last thing you want to do is concede to him. Because this time is the pigeons, then will be the fence, then the new planted tree and then the color of the roof and on and on. You need to stand tall and like a prick wall. If he shoots a bird of yours, and when is not around, shoot a window in his house (get yourself a high-power bb rifle for $40). If he doesn’t see you, the law will not prosecute you but in his heart he knows it was you. He will change his mind and will leave you alone because he will measure his losses and realize that you are a person he can not mess with. If it is not his house window, then it’s his car window. When they leave to store, mall or a church, follow them from a distance to see where they go and park their car. Then scratch it with a key big time. Damage anything of his when he is not looking and you will get him to back off. Sorry to tell you all of these sinister actions you have to take but getting him in a defensive mode is the only way to push him back.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jul 24, 2006 8:25 AM
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Outlaw Vizsla
18 posts
Jul 24, 2006
7:51 AM
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Jay & everyone...thank you for the offers to send money, but this problem goes back long before I had the birds. This guy has had a beef with us since the first day we moved in(and to this day we don't know what it is). Even if I do win the battle with CPH this guy is still going to come back and find some way to keep me from flying my birds. Be it with a lawsuit or by shooting them, as I believe he did Sunday(but I can't prove it). I know it seems like I’m rolling over by not fighting him, but I have to much money wrapped up in my dogs and birds to be constantly worrying about what this guy will do next. It would be way to easy for him to drop something over the fence and poison the dogs or somehow poison the birds.
Its just best for now that I move the birds to my friends property where the worst thing i have to fear is a hawk attack and put the house on the market. Finding a new place out here with some land won't be a problem, plus it give me a chance to get away from the city and neighborhoods.
again thank you for the offers to send money but its really not necessary. If you really want to donate money please give a donation to the board to keep this forum up and running cause with out it and all of you I wouldn’t have come up with some of the ideas you all provided.
Matt Rogers
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Sourland
77 posts
Jul 24, 2006
8:01 AM
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Matt, while I absolutely agree with Chachi's reasoning, the bottom line is that an angry disgruntled person (maybe even deranged) person is going to stay that way. Best deal is to relocate. I also raise, train, and compete at field trials with dogs. When we bought our starter home 42 years ago, we purchased ll+ acres out in the country surrounded by farms. We're still here. I love it and hope to be able to stay here forever. Get yourself a place surrounded by country people. Bad people are just that, and one for a neighbor is an impossible situation. Good Luck!
Geo.
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Velo99
562 posts
Jul 24, 2006
3:55 PM
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Matt,
Don`t move man. Don`t concede to a freak like that.
Go out to the alley put on some gloves and shut his water off take a shovel and break the line on his side of the meter. It should be PVC if it was built after 75 or so.If it is galvanized the inspector will make him replace the whole line
If he doesn`t hire a plumber and fixes it himself. Call code enforcement on him.When a meter is shut off the city plumbing inspector is supposed to inspect the work before it is turned back on. They will pull the meter till the problem is rectified. Then there is the matter of when the inspector gets out to inspect it might take some time a half a day or you could get lucky and it might take a day or two.Hefty fine for unliscensed plumbing.
Another scenario. Move to have his house condemned as a crackhouse.They bulldoze crackhouses here. Call the cops say there is always traffic at his house and he acts like he is ON something with his erratic and unseemly behavior. When the cops show up and check him out and he freaks on them ...you`ve watched COPS before and know how they deal with agressive people.
Probably won`t happen but he will have to deal with the BS.
Your city does have regulations protecting banded pigeons with seamless bands. If they have regulations protecting them you should be able to keep them. Lie and tell them you saw him kill the bird.
Do a little covert op. Go to the seedier parts of town and pay someone to harass (beat)the shit out of him. Probably get it done cheap. Like 20 bux and a 12 pack. Better yet catch him in the dark at the water meter, throw a pillow case over his head and go to work. Payback is a bitch!
I wish I was closer and I would take care of this freak myself.
Your friend,
Kenny
PS How about an auction for the legal fees?
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If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by Velo99 on Jul 24, 2006 4:06 PM
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